feel-os25at
New member
I don't understand why my post are like this. two or three, sorry
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Dosing aspartic acid
- Thread starter rkb
- Start date
redfishsc
New member
I received my small bottle of L-Aspartic powder from I-herb the other day.
I will dose this when I rebuild my system. Right now most of the rockwork has been bleached completely and is in the cycling process on my back patio (cycling them using household non-soapy ammonia). This was done to kill off, permanently (hopefully!!!) bryopsis. The only thing more evil than bryo is satan but bryo is harder to get rid of lol!
Once the rocks are cycled I'll sterlize all the tanks and then rebuild my rockwork with the cycled rock.
I will probably begin dosing some L-Aspartic, 1 salifert spoon scoop per week (80g total water volume) at that point.
I have been dosing vodka and vitamin C. I'll only dose the Vitamin C for the first month or so (1/4 tsp 2X a day, a minimal dose) and then ONLY go to vodka if the system needs it (high phosphate issues).
Will post the results.
My system has 3 small maxima and 1 4" crocea clam, and frags of acros, montis, hynophora, porites, pavona, 7 different euphyllia species (mostly 2-3 heads each), and in a connected tank I have a red goniopora and a mass of soft corals.
We'll see how they respond to the whole system changeover.
I will dose this when I rebuild my system. Right now most of the rockwork has been bleached completely and is in the cycling process on my back patio (cycling them using household non-soapy ammonia). This was done to kill off, permanently (hopefully!!!) bryopsis. The only thing more evil than bryo is satan but bryo is harder to get rid of lol!
Once the rocks are cycled I'll sterlize all the tanks and then rebuild my rockwork with the cycled rock.
I will probably begin dosing some L-Aspartic, 1 salifert spoon scoop per week (80g total water volume) at that point.
I have been dosing vodka and vitamin C. I'll only dose the Vitamin C for the first month or so (1/4 tsp 2X a day, a minimal dose) and then ONLY go to vodka if the system needs it (high phosphate issues).
Will post the results.
My system has 3 small maxima and 1 4" crocea clam, and frags of acros, montis, hynophora, porites, pavona, 7 different euphyllia species (mostly 2-3 heads each), and in a connected tank I have a red goniopora and a mass of soft corals.
We'll see how they respond to the whole system changeover.
Aspartic acid is a great choice for addition. However, making sure you have diverse AAs will definitely help with bacterial/coral growth. Aspartic acid is a good additive as it contains nitrogen as well as carbon. Whereas Vodka and VC will only have a source of carbon. The initial benefit of using aspartic acid would come if one's reef was somehow limited on this AA. Second benefit would be the introduction of nitrogenous products through assimilation or breakdown of this AA.
Ideally, adding multiple AAs would have the best results. Also, if you are looking at adding additives containing nitrogen, one may want to consider vitamins such as the Bs. I would be cautious with addition of B7 and B12 as it would add sulfur and phosphate/cobalt, respectfully.
Ideally, adding multiple AAs would have the best results. Also, if you are looking at adding additives containing nitrogen, one may want to consider vitamins such as the Bs. I would be cautious with addition of B7 and B12 as it would add sulfur and phosphate/cobalt, respectfully.
redfishsc
New member
Very interesting and informative post, Genetics! Thanks!
Is there a particular B that you'd recommend, or other AA to go a long with the aspartic acid? At the cost of these things and concentration you get with them online, I think this is a very cost effective alternative.
Do you think it would be safe to mix any of them in powder form for convenience, or premix a month worth of dosing and keep it in the fridge--- or would these degrade too quickly or react?
Is there a particular B that you'd recommend, or other AA to go a long with the aspartic acid? At the cost of these things and concentration you get with them online, I think this is a very cost effective alternative.
Do you think it would be safe to mix any of them in powder form for convenience, or premix a month worth of dosing and keep it in the fridge--- or would these degrade too quickly or react?
Daniel Reef
New member
Tagging along.
sowellj
New member
there are apparently bacteria that utilize methanol as an energy source, but it might be a bit riskier, compared to some of the other carbon sources. I am not sure the benefits would outweigh those risks?
redfishsc
New member
Methanol is pretty toxic, I wouldn't try it. Plus I have no idea where to find good methanol. The only place I know to find it is places that sell racing fuel, but many of them have an additive that has an aromatic scent when burned (usually bubblegum smell) so that you know when it's burning.
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
I finally broke and bought my bottle of Aspartic Acid. Dosing will begin tonight and I will report back in the upcoming weeks of my experience. Honestly for the qty included, a couple jars of different AAs' will last FOREVER!
Does anyone know the long-term stability of Aspartic Acid once dissolved in water? I would like to dissolve about 20g in 4L of water for dosing, but concerned degradation. I have not found much helpful info on degradation of Aspartic Acid. Would this solution be best kept in a cool, dark place such as the refrigerator?
Does anyone know the long-term stability of Aspartic Acid once dissolved in water? I would like to dissolve about 20g in 4L of water for dosing, but concerned degradation. I have not found much helpful info on degradation of Aspartic Acid. Would this solution be best kept in a cool, dark place such as the refrigerator?
HighlandReefer
Team RC
Both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria can utilize aspartic acid, so it is a concern that the bacteria will grow in your mix. Keeping the mix in a refrigerator can slow bacterial growth. I would expect that you can see the bacterial growth in the mix which would result in discoloration of the mix and in many cases actual bacterial mats forming. Once you see these signs, I would definitely toss it.
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
Omg.....:eek2:
All I can say is that Aspartic Acid RULES!:celeb1:
May 24: Created stock solution of 5g Aspartic Acid to 1L RO/DI water. Start dosing regime of 60mL weekly (30mL Sun / 30mL Wed). Alk reads 9.5dKh
June 11: Nearly three weeks in and Alk measures 8dKh with no change in qty of DIY 2-Part Alk portion. This will require an additional 5-7% of the previous alk dose to maintain at my desired level. There is no substantial shift in color, but the growth I have seen is amazing. I've seen growth growth in corals that normally are so slow that you cannot notice the difference unless it is a multiple week absence in the presence of the tank. About EVERY SINGLE CORAL BRANCH is showing white tips. The secondary positive is the recession of some annoying hair algae on the back glass. I expect that is from the increased bacterial growth from the AA. The only drawback to this dosing is that my protein skimmer does go nuts when dosing the AA. A couple hours after dosing has ceased the skimmer is fine. Within the next 24 hours after dosing has ceased, the skimmer again goes nuts. I believe this to be the bacterial bloom that is likely happening.
Just my observations at this point.... Hopefully this growth continues at this pace and no negatives happen from the increased bacterial loads. My only concern is the uncertainty of when I will reach bacterial equilibrium and how this may affect other aspects of my system when reached.
All I can say is that Aspartic Acid RULES!:celeb1:
May 24: Created stock solution of 5g Aspartic Acid to 1L RO/DI water. Start dosing regime of 60mL weekly (30mL Sun / 30mL Wed). Alk reads 9.5dKh
June 11: Nearly three weeks in and Alk measures 8dKh with no change in qty of DIY 2-Part Alk portion. This will require an additional 5-7% of the previous alk dose to maintain at my desired level. There is no substantial shift in color, but the growth I have seen is amazing. I've seen growth growth in corals that normally are so slow that you cannot notice the difference unless it is a multiple week absence in the presence of the tank. About EVERY SINGLE CORAL BRANCH is showing white tips. The secondary positive is the recession of some annoying hair algae on the back glass. I expect that is from the increased bacterial growth from the AA. The only drawback to this dosing is that my protein skimmer does go nuts when dosing the AA. A couple hours after dosing has ceased the skimmer is fine. Within the next 24 hours after dosing has ceased, the skimmer again goes nuts. I believe this to be the bacterial bloom that is likely happening.
Just my observations at this point.... Hopefully this growth continues at this pace and no negatives happen from the increased bacterial loads. My only concern is the uncertainty of when I will reach bacterial equilibrium and how this may affect other aspects of my system when reached.
I'm glad it helped, but I'm confused on the alkalinity comments.
May 24: ...Alk reads 9.5dKh
June 11: Nearly three weeks in and Alk measures 8dKh with no change in qty of DIY 2-Part Alk portion. This will require an additional 5-7% of the previous alk dose to maintain at my desired level.
Are you dosing more now?
May 24: ...Alk reads 9.5dKh
June 11: Nearly three weeks in and Alk measures 8dKh with no change in qty of DIY 2-Part Alk portion. This will require an additional 5-7% of the previous alk dose to maintain at my desired level.
Are you dosing more now?
jlinzmaier
Premium Member
The drop in alk is likely from the increased growth. You'll need to compensate by ramping up the ca/alk dosing as your stony corals grow.
Jeremy
Jeremy
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
I maintined my previous dose (~18.8mL/day) for the entire 'test' phase. I estimate by a calculator online that 1mL of Recipe 1 will add 1.4dKh/mL solution. So, to maintain my alk at 9.5 I would need to add 0.5dKh units more weekly to maintain my previous levels.
((9.5-8)dKh)*50gal=75 'total dKh units drop'
So, if the tank dropped 75 'total dKh units', the increase per week would be 25dKh or 17.86mL/PER WK = 2.55mL/PER DAY.
(2.55mL/day) / (18.8mL/day) = 13% increase.
I missed my percentage increase by alot when running the numbers in my head. If this logic (or shear stupidity) makes any sense, I have a huge increase in alk consumption...
My dosing will increase tonight as soon as I swicth over the kangaroo to a more potent dose.
OK, I understand. One has to be a little careful in extrapolating how much it takes to maintain alkalinity at particular levels, since demand will rise as the alkalinty rises, not just for the one time boost, but keeping it steady at 11 dKH typically takes more daily additions than does keeping it steady at 7 dKH. 
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
OK, I understand. One has to be a little careful in extrapolating how much it takes to maintain alkalinity at particular levels, since demand will rise as the alkalinty rises, not just for the one time boost, but keeping it steady at 11 dKH typically takes more daily additions than does keeping it steady at 7 dKH.
I understand exactly what your stating Randy.:thumbsup:
I realize that my calculations are at best a very crude approximation with mutliple unknowns not taken into account. Regardless, Aspartic Acid seems to have increased my tanks growth potential.
Any further AAs' or primary additives you know of that corals cannot produce and would increase growth/color further? This obsession with increasing color and growth has hit a new all-time high....:hmm3:
There are lots of recent papers on amino acids and calcification, and many seem to point to the importance of acidic amino acids. So in addition to aspartic acid (which is mentioned the most), you might experiment with glutamic acid.
For example:
In vitro regulation of CaCO3 crystal growth by the highly acidic proteins of calcitic sclerites in soft coral, Sinularia polydactyla. Rahman, M. Azizur; Oomori, Tamotsu. Department of Chemistry, Faculty of Science, University of the Ryukyus, Okinawa, Japan. Connective Tissue Research (2009), 50(5), 285-293.
Abstract
Acidic proteins are generally thought to control mineral formation and growth in biocalcification. Anal. of proteinaceous components in the sol. and insol. matrix fractions of sclerites in Sinularia polydactyla indicates that aspartic acid composes about 60% of the insol. and 29% of the sol. matrix fractions. We previously analyzed aspartic acids in the matrix fractions (insol. = 17 mol%; sol. = 38 mol%) of sclerites from a different type of soft coral, Lobophytum crassum, which showed comparatively lower aspartic acid-rich proteins than S. polydactyla. Thus, characterization of highly acidic proteins in the org. matrix of present species is an important first step toward linking function to individual proteins in soft coral. Here, we show that aspartic-acid rich proteins can control the CaCO3 polymorph in vitro. The CaCO3 ppts. in vitro in the presence of aspartic acid-rich proteins and 50 mM Mg2+ was verified by Raman microprobe anal. The matrix proteins of sclerites demonstrated that the aspartic-acid rich domain is crucial for the calcite pptn. in soft corals. The cryst. form of CaCO3 in the presence of aspartic acid-rich proteins in vitro was identified by X-ray diffraction and, revealed calcitic polymorphisms with a strong (104) reflection. The structure of soft coral org. matrixes contg. aspartate-rich proteins and polysaccharides was assessed by Fourier transform IR spectroscopy. These results strongly suggest that the aspartic acid-rich proteins within the org. matrix of soft corals play a key role in biomineralization regulation.
Characterization of proteins from the matrix of spicules from the alcyonarian, Lobophytum crassum. Rahman, M. Azizur; Isa, Yeishin. Department of Marine and Environmental Sciences, Graduate School of Engineering and Science, University of the Ryukyus, 1 Senbaru, Nishihara-cho, OkinawaNishihara-cho, Okinawa, Japan. Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology (2005), 321(1), 71-82.
Abstract
The org. matrix of spicules of the alcyonarian coral, Lobophytum crassum, was studied to investigate its mol. characteristics and functional properties. The shape of the spicules was identified using SEM. The sol. org. matrix comprised 0.03% of the spicule wt. The SDS-PAGE anal. of the prepn. showed four protein bands with apparent mol. wts. of 37, 48, 67 and 102 kDa. The 67- and 102-kDa proteins appeared to be calcium binding proteins, detected as radioactive bands by 45Ca autoradiog. The 67-kDa protein appears to be glycosylated. The N-terminal amino acid sequence of the 67 kDa was detd.; 7 of 20 residues were acidic. A database search for homologous proteins did not give a clear indication of the function of the 67-kDa protein. The isolated org. matrix possesses carbonic anhydrase activity which functions in calcium carbonate crystal formation, indicating that org. matrix is not only structural protein but also a catalyst. An interpretation of these results is that the spicule of alcyonarian corals has a proteinaceous org. matrix related to the calcification process.
For example:
In vitro regulation of CaCO3 crystal growth by the highly acidic proteins of calcitic sclerites in soft coral, Sinularia polydactyla. Rahman, M. Azizur; Oomori, Tamotsu. Department of Chemistry, Faculty of Science, University of the Ryukyus, Okinawa, Japan. Connective Tissue Research (2009), 50(5), 285-293.
Abstract
Acidic proteins are generally thought to control mineral formation and growth in biocalcification. Anal. of proteinaceous components in the sol. and insol. matrix fractions of sclerites in Sinularia polydactyla indicates that aspartic acid composes about 60% of the insol. and 29% of the sol. matrix fractions. We previously analyzed aspartic acids in the matrix fractions (insol. = 17 mol%; sol. = 38 mol%) of sclerites from a different type of soft coral, Lobophytum crassum, which showed comparatively lower aspartic acid-rich proteins than S. polydactyla. Thus, characterization of highly acidic proteins in the org. matrix of present species is an important first step toward linking function to individual proteins in soft coral. Here, we show that aspartic-acid rich proteins can control the CaCO3 polymorph in vitro. The CaCO3 ppts. in vitro in the presence of aspartic acid-rich proteins and 50 mM Mg2+ was verified by Raman microprobe anal. The matrix proteins of sclerites demonstrated that the aspartic-acid rich domain is crucial for the calcite pptn. in soft corals. The cryst. form of CaCO3 in the presence of aspartic acid-rich proteins in vitro was identified by X-ray diffraction and, revealed calcitic polymorphisms with a strong (104) reflection. The structure of soft coral org. matrixes contg. aspartate-rich proteins and polysaccharides was assessed by Fourier transform IR spectroscopy. These results strongly suggest that the aspartic acid-rich proteins within the org. matrix of soft corals play a key role in biomineralization regulation.
Characterization of proteins from the matrix of spicules from the alcyonarian, Lobophytum crassum. Rahman, M. Azizur; Isa, Yeishin. Department of Marine and Environmental Sciences, Graduate School of Engineering and Science, University of the Ryukyus, 1 Senbaru, Nishihara-cho, OkinawaNishihara-cho, Okinawa, Japan. Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology (2005), 321(1), 71-82.
Abstract
The org. matrix of spicules of the alcyonarian coral, Lobophytum crassum, was studied to investigate its mol. characteristics and functional properties. The shape of the spicules was identified using SEM. The sol. org. matrix comprised 0.03% of the spicule wt. The SDS-PAGE anal. of the prepn. showed four protein bands with apparent mol. wts. of 37, 48, 67 and 102 kDa. The 67- and 102-kDa proteins appeared to be calcium binding proteins, detected as radioactive bands by 45Ca autoradiog. The 67-kDa protein appears to be glycosylated. The N-terminal amino acid sequence of the 67 kDa was detd.; 7 of 20 residues were acidic. A database search for homologous proteins did not give a clear indication of the function of the 67-kDa protein. The isolated org. matrix possesses carbonic anhydrase activity which functions in calcium carbonate crystal formation, indicating that org. matrix is not only structural protein but also a catalyst. An interpretation of these results is that the spicule of alcyonarian corals has a proteinaceous org. matrix related to the calcification process.
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
My corals were exploding with growth from only the Aspartic Acid....until the 'Dark Ages'......:sad1:
I recently moved and have slowly been losing half my coral livestock. All dosing has ceased and I've just been trying to recover my water parameter stability in the last few weeks. 2 months out and I have lost 50% of all colonies, mini-colonies & frags.... So, I'm not too enthusiastic about reefing at the moment...
:sad1::sad2::mad2:
HighlandReefer
Team RC
Sorry to hear about your losses.
This hobby can be very frustrating at times. I hope you don't decide to give up.
This hobby can be very frustrating at times. I hope you don't decide to give up.
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