Dosing Nitrate to reduce Phosphate

[reefmutt]

The sources for no3 and dosages are both very helpfull!
Thanks to everybody for the info..
I'm curious, though, what people are using to test for no3 and po4.
There is so much ambiguity about which po4 test kits are truly accurate..
Thanks!

 

[DiscusHeckel]

The sources for no3 and dosages are both very helpfull!
Thanks to everybody for the info..
I'm curious, though, what people are using to test for no3 and po4.
There is so much ambiguity about which po4 test kits are truly accurate..
Thanks!

I use Salifert for NO3 and Rowa Merck for phosphates. Sadly, Rowa Merck, which is widely accepted as the most sensitive hobby grade phosphate test kit, is not being produced anymore.

 

[the_real_brian]

The sources for no3 and dosages are both very helpfull!
Thanks to everybody for the info..
I'm curious, though, what people are using to test for no3 and po4.
There is so much ambiguity about which po4 test kits are truly accurate..
Thanks!

I use Salifert for Nitrates and a Hanna Ultra Low Range Phosphorus Checker for phosphate. Both seem to give me pretty consistent results.

 

[reefmutt]

I use Salifert for NO3 and Rowa Merck for phosphates. Sadly, Rowa Merck, which is widely accepted as the most sensitive hobby grade phosphate test kit, is not being produced anymore.

Yes, that was a great test kit..
With the checkers coming on the market, i think the merck became too expensive to make.
D-D took over that test kit, but I have no idea who makes it now..

real Brian, I haven't seen great results from the checkers.. I hear people getting a lot of varied results with them.. However, I would assume the the phosphorous checker would be at least slightly more accurate than the phosphate checker..

 

[Psyops]

I never thought in a million years I would need to read a thread about dosing to increase our nitrate. I never had a system doing as well as mine is doing now (knock on wood).

My phosphates are creeping a little higher and I don't want to feed more. So thanks guys for the info on dosing NaNo3. Appreciate all the guidance.

Alex

 

[the_real_brian]

This method works!

This method works!

After just 3 weeks of dosing a clean NaNo3 source and some vodka I'm happy to announce the phosphates in my tank are lower than the bucket of salt I'm currently mixing for a water change. :dance:

Easy, easy, easy...I'm done with GFO. I almost tried LaCl3, but I'm damn glad I tried this first. No filter socks, no reactors, and very little money.

I almost forgot. As a bonus, my mangrove that averages about 2 new leaves a year sprouted 2 new leaves within a week of supplementing NaNo3. :celeb3:

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. You've renewed my interest in this hobby.


I'm happy to provide details upon request.

 

[tmz]

Thanks for the information .Details would be helpful. How much vodka? How much NaNO3? What are the PO4 and No3 levels?

 

[the_real_brian]

Thanks for the information .Details would be helpful. How much vodka? How much NaNO3? What are the PO4 and No3 levels?

When I started with just vodka, my phosphates were about 0.2 ppm and Nitrate was undetectable. This was around 2 months ago. Dosing just vodka, I was able to get my phosphates down to 0.12 ppm but at that point they started to creep back up again.

The NeoNitro debacle raised my phosphates to almost 0.4 ppm. After which, I kept dosing vodka and ordered some food grade NaNo3.

When I received my NaNo3, I mixed 50 grams with 2/3 gallon of distilled water for a potency of about 14484 ppm. Adding 1ml of this stuff should raise the nitrates in a 75 gallon tank by 0.05 ppm.

I started dosing this nitrate solution 3 weeks ago at 5ml/day. I gradually bumped it up to 15ml/day and 2 weeks in I finally noticed a little pink on my Salifert test, at which point I backed off to just 10ml/day.

As of today I am dosing 1.6 ml/day vodka and 10/ml day of nitrate solution. My nitrates are somewhere between 0.5 - 1 ppm, and my phosphates are lower than they've ever been at 0.025 ppm.

It's a 75 gallon tank with a small skimmer sump, so I assume with rock and sand my total volume is still around 75. I run a Reef Dynamics INS-180 skimmer and do 5 gallon weekly water changes with Instant Ocean or Reef Crystals.

 

[ReefKeeper64]

When I started with just vodka, my phosphates were about 0.2 ppm and Nitrate was undetectable. This was around 2 months ago. Dosing just vodka, I was able to get my phosphates down to 0.12 ppm but at that point they started to creep back up again.

The NeoNitro debacle raised my phosphates to almost 0.4 ppm. After which, I kept dosing vodka and ordered some food grade NaNo3.

When I received my NaNo3, I mixed 50 grams with 2/3 gallon of distilled water for a potency of about 14484 ppm. Adding 1ml of this stuff should raise the nitrates in a 75 gallon tank by 0.05 ppm.

I started dosing this nitrate solution 3 weeks ago at 5ml/day. I gradually bumped it up to 15ml/day and 2 weeks in I finally noticed a little pink on my Salifert test, at which point I backed off to just 10ml/day.

As of today I am dosing 1.6 ml/day vodka and 10/ml day of nitrate solution. My nitrates are somewhere between 0.5 - 1 ppm, and my phosphates are lower than they've ever been at 0.025 ppm.

It's a 75 gallon tank with a small skimmer sump, so I assume with rock and sand my total volume is still around 75. I run a Reef Dynamics INS-180 skimmer and do 5 gallon weekly water changes with Instant Ocean or Reef Crystals.

I'm glad to hear things are working well for you with the sodium nitrate. I've recently switched from potassium nitrate over to sodium nitrate after I noticed potassium levels creeping up slightly each week. Both forms of nitrate are cheap so no big deal to switch over.

My own PO4 levels tested out at 0.01 today and nitrate is at 5 so I'm happy and SPS are happy as well. No GFO in use at this point either and that's with 4 automated fish flake feedings a day and one manual feeding of Mysis so there is plenty of food to go around.

Passing on a few observations for anyone else who may benefit:

When dosing nitrate the test readings follow behind the dosing regimen by a few days. Don't expect to be able to take a test reading 3 hours after dosing nitrate and expect that it will be accurate. Give it a day or two to see the full impact (the readiing will have gone up by then).

I've let my nitrate levels drop to 0 a couple times over the past few months when traveling. The wife and kids keep the feedings up though and again, no GFO. In both cases when this happened (I was away on business), PO4 levels went up to around 0.12-0.17 by the time I returned. I have a doser now, which helps.

If you find that your battle with PO4 starts to wane a bit in the months ahead in spite of adding nitrate, be sure to read up on iron and it's impact on bacteria growth. Look up Glennf's DSR method here on RC (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2301583). From Glennf I learned that he supplements iron along with nitrate and vinegar to reduce PO4 even further. His recipe works so well that he says he sometimes has to dose a small amount of PO4 to keep his PO4 levels at ideal (around 0.03). As the story goes, vodka (carbon) and nitrate feed the bacteria (they absorb it) and those same bacteria also absorb PO4 and a little iron at the same time. Eventually iron can become a limiting factor. You need to keep up your water changes or may need to increase them. Or supplement iron via feeding, dosing or what have you. Of course, you will need to test iron to do that safely but it is worth it. When iron is in check, I saw PO4 drop again quickly and skimmer activity increased as well.

Reference:

bacteria consume iron to survive
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/DrinkingWater/documents/pubs/ironinwell.pdf

There are plenty of other studies citing how bacteria consume iron and the one above is just the result of a quick bing search. Read up on this as it is a component to understanding the biology behind this PO4 challenge.

Happy Reefing all! :wavehand:

 

[hypnoj]

To the last 2 posters: what are you keeping your Alk at? Are these sps heavy tanks?

 

[the_real_brian]

To the last 2 posters: what are you keeping your Alk at? Are these sps heavy tanks?

My tank is a mixed reef. I only have one acro at the moment but I'd like to add more now that I have my phosphate under control. My alk is currently at 7 dKH but I'd like to bump it up to about 8.

 

[tmz]

real brian

Thanks fo the details.
Have you noted if continuous additions keep raising the nitrate or is it being used based on your observations?

 

[reefmutt]

This thread keeps getting better and better!
Thanks reef keeper, great info..

I've been running a sand bed in separate containers since starting my sps tank in June. My n has been 0 from the start and with gfo, my p stays around .05-.08. I'm using a LOT of gfo to keep it there...
I've just removed a few of my sand bed baskets to see if by reducing the denitrifying sand beds a little, my p may come down in its own...
Does this make sense to anybody other than me??

 

[ReefKeeper64]

To the last 2 posters: what are you keeping your Alk at? Are these sps heavy tanks?

Alk is maintained at around 7.5 using a calcium reactor and I run an SPS tank with acro's, strylo's, mili, gonipora, etc. You can see my build at the link on tag line. Measurable nitrates between 0.5 - 5 (in conjunction with PO4 at around 0.03) provide improved polyp extension and color. I wouldn't take it above 5 long term though.

 

[reefmutt]

I keep my alk at 7-7.5 as well. Full sps... Also using a ca reactor.

 

[herring_fish]

I've just removed a few of my sand bed baskets to see if by reducing the denitrifying sand beds a little, my p may come down in its own...
Does this make sense to anybody other than me??

Yea that does make since to me. I did the same thing, disconnecting my remote sand bed from the system. Unfortunately, that didn't break the cycle. I am just guessing that once I got my N and P out of balance, it was very hard to get it back without intervention.

Again, I am only guessing but once the bacteria gets to a certain point, removing some of the media that it originally needed to flourish in, won't do the trick.

I went for many months with a disconnected DSB and coral rubble sump but got no change. When I carefully started doing N, things straightened out.

 

[the_real_brian]

real brian

Thanks fo the details.
Have you noted if continuous additions keep raising the nitrate or is it being used based on your observations?

Once I noticed nitrate showing up on my test kit I backed off my dosage after a couple of days, so I really can't say. I'll see what it does over the next week or so and get back with you.

 

[tmz]

Thanks mine just hung around at 0.5 to 1ppm for weeks after using sodium nitrate. Just curious as to whether infrequent additions are a general trend.

 

[igadget56]

I am so glad I found this thread. I have a 210 that has been up and running for 6
months. I have been dosing vinegar for the last 4. Nitrates are o. Phosphates are
.10. I have used tons of GFO and a lanthanum chloride reactor for over a month
but I can't get the phosphates to budge. I don't think it is leeching from the rock,
I had it for 2 years in my other tank and phosphate was 0.03. Is this something I
could try, or do I have other problems?

 

[the_real_brian]

I am so glad I found this thread. I have a 210 that has been up and running for 6
months. I have been dosing vinegar for the last 4. Nitrates are o. Phosphates are
.10. I have used tons of GFO and a lanthanum chloride reactor for over a month
but I can't get the phosphates to budge. I don't think it is leeching from the rock,
I had it for 2 years in my other tank and phosphate was 0.03. Is this something I
could try, or do I have other problems?

What test kits are you using?