Drain Pipe adn Sump Noise

[Rudolph]

Bought a new tank a few weeks ago and finally got it all ready to go last week. It ran great for a few days and now it makes such horrible noise I have shut it down. I have never had any issues with drain pipes and sumps before and the internet searches are more confusing and never the same set up as mine. I hear them talk about the same issues, but once again their set ups are always different.

I replaced my 75G from Memfish and the water draining into my sump runs normal for a second and then the water drops and creates a fast surge into my tank. Then the water in the corner drain rises and runs normal for a few seconds and then it has some kind of siphon starts and slams the water into my sump. Way too lound and sounds like the ocean slamming in and out.

So, the drain pipe has the typical unside down u shape and two holes on each side (same as the other standard issue at Memfish). It also has a drilled hole in the top with some clear airline coming out. The water is normally above the two holes on the side and then I can see the water drop until it hits the holes breaking the siphon. Then the water rises and goes over the hole and runs a second or two normal. It does this cycle over and over again.

Thoughts? It seems like a common problem on the internet, but once again, none of their solutions are usuable as their set ups are different than mine. Frustraiting when you have it all ready to go and have to shut it down. I have never had this type of issues in all my years as it has always been just set it up and plug it in. I went to Lowes to get some parts to reduce the water flow (even though I am using the same pump from my last tank) and it seemed a little quiter for a bit, but then the gushing started all over again.

I will call the Memfish team, but thought someone hear might have crossed this bridge before. The drain pipe goes through the bottom of the tank.

 

[OneReef]

Sometimes it will help if you enlarge the hole with the airline tubing, maybe use a bigger airline to allow more air for less suction. Or, Your return pump may be too strong for the amount being drained. You can try slowing it down a bit if you have a ball valve on the return line after the return pump.

One other thought, your drain line may be submerged too far in the sump water...

 

[Rudolph]

Jay: I bought a t connector and added a ball valve. I opened it up all the way just to get a difference and it seemed better (not great) for a while and then it still started the gushing and serging again.

The drain line does not go into the water at all. This tank is now a freshwater and it runs into a drain and over some bio balls.

So I guess I could try to drill the top hole bigger and see what happens. Worse case I am back to Lowe's to replace it. That seems like it might help as the water runs fine for a bit and then the suction starts and it turpo charges the water flow. I will try tomorrow night and see what happens (had enough fun for one night).

Thanks Jay.

 

[BassandReef]

Can you change to a Durso drain pipe? It works for me and it's adjustable. Sounds like there isn't enough air getting in there.

I agree with Jay. Either a bigger hole in the top or more holes.

 

[Rudolph]

Carlii it is a durso. I drilled one hole in the end piece this morning and no change. Second hole and no change. Now I am wondering about the drain line.

I have the standpipe coming down with a 45 degree piece attached to the bottom. I have the attachable flex hose coming from it to the sump. It is not under water. Anyone see a problem with the 45 degree?

 

[Rudolph]

 

[keithhays]

If you remove the durso cap altogether and the flushing is still happening, you have too much water flowing into the overflow, valve down your pump until the flushing stops, then replace the cap.

 

[Rudolph]

Keith: I can try it again tonight and see. However, last night I added a T to the return line with a ball valve. I slowly adjusted it to see what it would do. I ended up with it wide open and it seemed to make it a bit better, but still not acceptable. I took off the cap and I cannot clearly remember if it stopped gushing or not. The sound was so loud I may have not been paying as close attention to see if the Tsunami stopped. I am using the same pump I had on the old tank, so I hate to troddle it down so low. Darn, I wish I had the old plumbing!

I threw away my old plumbing from my older tank, but while the drilled holes were the same, the plumbing was larger above the tank. It was very old plumbing, but never any problems.

You read discussion boards on this and you are more confused afterwards as they are all over the place, larger this, smaller this, no higher, no lower.....ug. Of course I am limited to changes on the drainpipe as I have cemented it in.

Now while I drilled two new holes in cap, I did not have any airline hose to insert. It came with a small hole with airline tubing in it. I don't see what the purpose of the airline tubing is, unless the water went above the holes (which it doesn't). If that is critical for some reason, I can stop and pick up some rigid tubing (not sure where).

 

[Rudolph]

....okay, in looking on the internet, mine may not be a "durso" fitting. I am not at home, so i cannot put up a picture. I took a picture of my stand pipe cap and started to post, but it got too late. Mine forms a slightly extented U with a couple of elbow fittings and two large drilled holes on the side of one of the elbows. In looking at durso pictures this AM, it appears there is a larger part that extends above the U bend. Hopefully I can recreate this design and solve my problem........

Edit: In thinking this through, why do they have two holes on each side on my original elbow piece? Otherwise, it would seem (without the two holes) I would have the same effect of the durso with the hole at the top of the elbow (both are above the water)? Unless this extension is the real magic.....if so, how long is ideal......oh inquiring minds need to know.....

 

[BassandReef]

Who is carlii?:rollface:

 

[Rudolph]

Who is carlii?:rollface:

Some guy that was lurking around here posing as a female.....:spin3:

 

[Rudolph]

If you remove the durso cap altogether and the flushing is still happening, you have too much water flowing into the overflow, valve down your pump until the flushing stops, then replace the cap.

Well, your test above reveals it does have flushing, so I guess I need to start with the pump. Kind of frustraiting since it is the same pump that has been in the tank for over 10 years in the same size tank. I guess the lesson learned is that different plumbing can reduce your flow varily significantly (or maybe I was just at the max?). If so, those buying a new tank should consider modifying the plumbing that comes with the tank, or at least research ways to modify to maximize flow before breaking out the cement.

Anyway, I did not like my last rigged t and ball setup (did not want to put a ball restrictor directly on the pump), so I will have to play around tonight and see. I will try that before I try to change anything else on the current drainpipe config.

Thanks everyone for your input.......

 

[keithhays]

Well, your test above reveals it does have flushing, so I guess I need to start with the pump. Kind of frustraiting since it is the same pump that has been in the tank for over 10 years in the same size tank. I guess the lesson learned is that different plumbing can reduce your flow varily significantly (or maybe I was just at the max?). If so, those buying a new tank should consider modifying the plumbing that comes with the tank, or at least research ways to modify to maximize flow before breaking out the cement.

Anyway, I did not like my last rigged t and ball setup (did not want to put a ball restrictor directly on the pump), so I will have to play around tonight and see. I will try that before I try to change anything else on the current drainpipe config.

Thanks everyone for your input.......

Glad to help, this is a pretty common problem so you are definitely not alone in it. Happy Reefing.

 

[OneReef]

Maybe it's the angle of your picture, but it appears your drain line curves slightly back upwards along its route? That could be a problem, you may need more downward drainage, as that slight upward bow might be the culprit. Just a thought.

On another note, are the extra drilled holes that you mentioned there for back siphoning in case of power outage? The holes break the siphon. I'm not sure if that what you were asking though...

As far as your drain line, you could screw into the wood above it an eye screw, and use some cable ties/string through the eye and down to the drain line and tighten it enough to lift up that bowed part... That might help

From what I've experienced, the airline tubing in the hole reduces the noise. You can find tune your air suction with different size holes or tuning, but mostly I've found it mostly eliminates the noise from the pipe coming through the hole

 

[OneReef]

Also, if you get some free time at home, I would be willing to come over to check it out and see if my tinkering will help. I've messed with alot of dursos over the years. Just let me know and I'd be happy to lend a hand....

 

[MemphisTigers]

Agree with one reef about the curvature of the flex hose. Should be straight plumbing from 45 elbow to top of sump.

 

[Rudolph]

Jay: There is limp on the sump just below the flex tubing and although it is not in the picture, I had it left over from another project and put it under the tubing to support the power slushing. I could put something under it to take out the bump.

I knew I should have posted that picture this AM! I presume the two pre-drilled holes on the elbow is some type of protection in case the top air hole gets blocked? Not sure. The top hole is small with a small piece of rigid tubing. I drilled three more holes (one at a time) to see if that would help. I don't think it did much, but now I have noises, so you may be right in that the tubing dampens the noise. I ran to Lowe's during lunch and bought a T versus an elbow and a cap. This will eliminate the two big holes on the side of the original elbow. However, I will drill a hole in the end cap and see if what this design does differently. I am also going to call Memfish and see if others with the set up had any issues and any potential solutions.

I did pinch the pump tubing really hard this AM on my way out the door (obsessed with the issue I guess) and I almost had to clamp it off to get the gushing to slow down. Once again, this pump ran on my other 75 with out any of this fanfare....

I didn't use a 90 as I figured the flex tubing would do same thing...right? I presume gravity would make it drop a few inches from the connection on the 90 as well? Anyway, my goal was to keep the plumbing up and above the sump so I could easily take it out and clean, as well as keep access open.

Jay, I will try this new durso (I now think the other one is a "durso" too, but a different design....not sure if it is new and improved or old and should be tossed). I will then try a lesser pump (that will be frustrating). After that, you may get a call!

To think, all this pain over what has been a non-event all these years?

P.S. - Either way, thanks for the offer!

 

[Rudolph]

Just got off the phone with Richard and he hit on your keen eye Jay. He said if there is a down and then up section of the flex tubing, that could be the culprit. He indicated the water may fill up in the dip and then with the weight of water building up, it finally releases and splashes into the sump.

My fingers are crossed!

 

[Rudolph]

:sad1:

Well, that seemed to help a bit as the frequency is down and not as hard, but still there. I took the hose and simply ran it down into the sump to eliminate the kink theory. No real differences, so I turned to the drainpipe.

So, I tried more holes and that seem to help a bit more. However, with the holes I have much more noise. So, less thunderous waves, but draining sink noise is loud.

Real bummer....

 

[Rudolph]

Here is a pic of the side drain holes. With just one hole on the top the water level would drop until it reached these holes and break the suction and send the water splashing in the sump. Water will rise and then cycle over again...

With each new hole I put in the cap, the water level has risen and never gets back to these two holes. However, it still is flushing. I am not sure if I just keep adding more holes...I now have five. More holes equals more drain noise.