drummereef's 180g in-wall build

Brett,

Have you taken a look at some pictures/articles of calothrix?

Yes, there's a good pic/description on Reef Cleaners on it that I saw. Mine isn't quite as filamentous as what the description shows but it could very well be that. Apparently Dinos and Calothrix are often misdiagnosed because they look and behave very similar. I do have some red cyano in the display and refugium so I know there's an abundance of bacteria that could be causing this - if it is Calothrix considering it's a type of Cyanobacteria. I siphoned some of it off the rocks the other day and it's becoming easier to do so, like it's not "sticking" to the rocks as bad. I also am working on another method to getting rid of this stuff so I'll update on that as I see more progress.

I could be a combination of things but it definitely has gotten better since I've taken the Kalk doser offline. Perhaps it thrives at higher pH? I dunno.. Or it could have been the impurities of the Kalk getting into the tank that was feeding it. Again, not sure. I'll keep you posted on the progress though. Thanks Josh! :)
 
I just wanted to say that this and ChigChai's builds are by far my favorite. I've been following this one and love that its still going.
 
Yeah, what's really interesting, I have 3 locals here that started new tanks roughly within the same time as you....myself being one.

All 3 of us used marco rock, and all 3 have had multiple problems with assorted algaes that I feel don't normally occur with successfull reefers as the 3 of have been.

2 have started over because of it, while I'm still battling it out a bit more patiently. Did you cook/wash do anything to your dry rock beyond a quick rinse?
 
I saw your addition of new fish to your system. Are you QT'ing your new additions or adding them directly to your main tank? Whats your QT setup if you are QT'ing fish?
 
Brett - My guess is that your algae problem was (is) mostly due to the carbon. All carbon will leach phosphate, it's just that better grades leach less than cheaper ones.

That would also explain your "phosphate/nitrate imbalance" - your tank is probably running very well with very little dissolved nutrients, so the reason that your phosphate levels were a lot higher than your nitrate was that the carbon was leaching phosphate back into the water.
 
I just wanted to say that this and ChigChai's builds are by far my favorite. I've been following this one and love that its still going.

I'm not sure my "home-brew" reef tank should be mentioned in the same sentence as ChingChai's amazing system but I appreciate the kind words. Thank you. :)

Yeah, what's really interesting, I have 3 locals here that started new tanks roughly within the same time as you....myself being one.

All 3 of us used marco rock, and all 3 have had multiple problems with assorted algaes that I feel don't normally occur with successfull reefers as the 3 of have been.

2 have started over because of it, while I'm still battling it out a bit more patiently. Did you cook/wash do anything to your dry rock beyond a quick rinse?

Yep. I think we were the unlucky winners of a particularly bad batch of Marco Rock, one that was particularly dirty. I didn't do anything to my rock except rinse in RO/DI, put it in the tank, seeded it with some live sand from PA and let it cycle on it's own. Lanthanum Chloride wasn't a well established practice when I set the tank up - at least I didn't know about it and nobody was suggesting it's use when I was setting up the tank. In retrospect I would have, without hesitation, dosed Lanthanum Chloride throughout the initial cycle if not longer.

I do think the Marco Rock has been the bane of my reef existence. I personally won't buy any more Marco Rock considering the bad experience I've had. For the amount of money I've spent on trying to fix the issues with the Marco Rock I could have easily bought some "real" live rock - like the Manado from PA - and likely would have avoided the multitude of issues I've had.

I've considered pulling the Marco Rock, fragging all my corals and starting over with Manado but I'm this far into it now and I don't know if I'm willing to completely start over. I can tell you, the Pukani Rock in my fuge has been excellent as far as base rock goes. It's been quick to encrust in coralline and hasn't ever had a major algae bloom. However, I prepared the rock by pre-cycling it and dosed Lanthanum Chloride liberally during the process.


I saw your addition of new fish to your system. Are you QT'ing your new additions or adding them directly to your main tank? Whats your QT setup if you are QT'ing fish?

I plead the fifth. :hmm2: I do feel QT'ing is a good practice but the last time I tried I lost all the fish I purchased - so it didn't sit well with me. It's a controversial topic to say the least, but I do feel it's the best thing to do when introducing new fish.


Brett - My guess is that your algae problem was (is) mostly due to the carbon. All carbon will leach phosphate, it's just that better grades leach less than cheaper ones.

That would also explain your "phosphate/nitrate imbalance" - your tank is probably running very well with very little dissolved nutrients, so the reason that your phosphate levels were a lot higher than your nitrate was that the carbon was leaching phosphate back into the water.


Interesting dkeller. I did use quite a bit of carbon in my reactor when the tank was started. So you are suggesting the carbon absorbed NO3 but leached PO4 until there was an imbalance of nutrients? Just trying to clarify... I was also running GFO at the same time as well as running bio pellets for a few months too.
 
You and I are on the same boat then with yanking out the rock. I have been thinking about just turning off my display tank and using my sump/frag tank to hold my coral, but I have considerably more fish in my tank than you so it would be a huge ordeal.

I'm wondering when or IF the rock will ever just be depleted of whatever the crap is we have.
 
You and I are on the same boat then with yanking out the rock. I have been thinking about just turning off my display tank and using my sump/frag tank to hold my coral, but I have considerably more fish in my tank than you so it would be a huge ordeal.

I'm wondering when or IF the rock will ever just be depleted of whatever the crap is we have.

That is precisely the question I ask my self DAILY! :lol: You'd think this madness would be over considering we've been at the game now for what, 3 years??? :headwally: On another note... my latest battle is Aips. They were somewhat under control but using Aiptasia X has been probably the worst mistake I made - spread the things like crazy all over the tank. I'm considering adding a couple Peppermint Shrimp or a few Berghia Nudibranchs. Do you have any Aips in your tank?

It's amazing with all the forethought trying to prevent pests from getting into the tank they manage to get in despite our intense efforts to avoid it from happening. I swear, base rock is like a freaking magnet. Because there's a lack of good stuff on the rock to begin with, the bad stuff is constantly fighting to inhabit the rock. There must have been spores in the live sand I originally seeded the tank with... :furious: But how are we supposed to avoid that??
 
Last edited:
I should take a picture of my overflows that you would get a good laugh at.

"Do I have aiptasia"

Does a bear crap in the woods...lol

I had my huge fair share of them and continue to laugh at the 100's in my overflows that I leave there thinking they provide some natural filtration and some snacks for my copperband. I went the peppermint route for a while until my hawkfish liked to rip off some legs. I have 1 or 2 in my frag tank and they will go after smaller ones but not anything big.

The copperband will never leave my tank and people no matter how much they offer me will not get him either. Once you get an established one that will eat them, hold on to them forever.
 
I should take a picture of my overflows that you would get a good laugh at.

"Do I have aiptasia"

Does a bear crap in the woods...lol

I had my huge fair share of them and continue to laugh at the 100's in my overflows that I leave there thinking they provide some natural filtration and some snacks for my copperband. I went the peppermint route for a while until my hawkfish liked to rip off some legs. I have 1 or 2 in my frag tank and they will go after smaller ones but not anything big.

The copperband will never leave my tank and people no matter how much they offer me will not get him either. Once you get an established one that will eat them, hold on to them forever.

Hahahahaha! :lol: Too funny! What's weird is I don't have any in my overflows or fuge tank that I can see. Just the display. I also considered adding a Kleins Butterfly as I've heard they are good Aiptasia eaters. But have to be used with caution in a reef tank. I don't have any softies / leather corals so maybe they would be a good choice?? I just tend to favor adding inverts instead of a fish I might not necessarily want to keep long term. No dunno...
 
Hahahahaha! :lol: Too funny! What's weird is I don't have any in my overflows or fuge tank that I can see. Just the display. I also considered adding a Kleins Butterfly as I've heard they are good Aiptasia eaters. But have to be used with caution in a reef tank. I don't have any softies / leather corals so maybe they would be a good choice?? I just tend to favor adding inverts instead of a fish I might not necessarily want to keep long term. No dunno...

G'day Brett

How about one of these little fellas?

1FD21193-F3F3-4EEA-9E6C-501944BD5484-8578-000009F6956B1BE4_zps71366952.jpg


5321C679-11B5-4631-9DBA-EDEAA3FF7B22-8578-000009F694F08439_zps5d798b0e.jpg


F15F212C-24FB-4323-9518-ECC45BAE4A1C-8578-000009F69434F3A9_zpsdcf40438.jpg


http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/ac/feature/
 
Last edited:
Interesting dkeller. I did use quite a bit of carbon in my reactor when the tank was started. So you are suggesting the carbon absorbed NO3 but leached PO4 until there was an imbalance of nutrients? Just trying to clarify... I was also running GFO at the same time as well as running bio pellets for a few months too.

No - carbon won't absorb nitrate to any appreciable extent. I would suspect your algae and other photosynthetes was using your nitrates, and possibly you also have some anoxic dinitrification going on in your rock. Because the carbon is a source for phosphate, however, it's getting into your water faster than the GFO and/or algae is taking it out.

GFO doesn't really have a huge capacity for phosphate adsorption, relatively speaking. But because phosphate has to be put into the tank either through water, food, or rock/carbon leaching, using GFO is effective enough to keep PO4 low.

Honestly, I've never heard someone describe a "nutrient imbalance" with regards to phosphate & nitrate. My opinion is that you want them to be below the detection level of a test kit, and to provide the necessary amount through food.
 
Tonight was my catch up night on some old threads. I have found a connection in your thread and Prop's thread as well. lol Unfortunately, both involve some of the struggles of this hobby.

I have tried everything for aiptasia... I would show you how bad my tank is but its embarrassing. I will give you my experience on each of the natural methods. I have tried kalk and it had the same effect as you experienced with aiptasia-X - massive growth later on. I later found a thread on a guy who cultures berghia who said that he uses that method to propagate his aiptasia. So I have turned to any other method and am reminded that everything you read on the internet is not always the answer. In this case, I think its a good solution for 1 aiptasia, but I believe the same solution becomes an issue when you are looking at much higher quantities.

First, I tried berghia. They only eat aiptasia so how could I go wrong? Well.... those guys are expensive. I do believe they can do the trick, but I never established a large enough population in my main tank. I also believe they don't acclimate as well as other inverts. The vendors didn't lie when they said you would never see them again in your tank, unfortunately, 6 months later and I still don't have any dent made in my aiptasia. I spent over $300 to get a large amount for my display of adult sized berghia and never saw them again. I also bought juveniles and adults for a biocube to try to get them breeding and they did well, but my travel schedule did not allow me to breed them well. This is the way to go with berghia if I ever did it again. It also requires you to isolate the anemones to feed them until you have a large enough population to really attach the main tank.

This caused me to turn to every other method I know. Fish and shrimp. I had success eradicating my first saltwater tank of aiptasia with peppermint shrimp. I just find that in the display tank environment, they get lazy and choose to eat the food you feed over searching for aiptasia at night.

I also have had 2 butterflies and 2 file fish. These guys are in a separate tank. I learned the hard way that filefish may eat peppermint shrimp so I will no longer be doubling up on my attack - at least in the same tank. The video posted by Dkeller looks interesting and I may give it a try - with the peppermints and filefish. The filefish eat mysis pretty well, so I may end up hand feeding aiptasia and letting them go after the food. If it works for one, I don't see why it wouldn't work for the other.

The other thing I have had success with, moreso than the filefish, is butterflies. I had a klein's for awhile and also a long nose. Both of them did better than the filefish I believe. The only issue is that they are picky eaters and I lost them shortly after getting them. My second shipment arrived DOA so I am picking up another set tomorrow morning (along with additional peppermints). I keep going back to these guys as I was able to clear 2 fully infested rocks in 3 days. I have had a few pop up on those rocks since then, however I am positive if I can keep them alive another go at it with those rocks would take care of it.

I wish you luck. I also have the issue with cyano and I have not read far enough back in the thread, but it appears you have read the article that links the two issues together. I am gathering this based on the "imbalance" discussion - I tend to remember an article that addressed both aiptasia and cyano as a nutrient imbalance. I will tell you, that the few pieces of live rock I was able to get clean of aiptasia have remained free of cyano for 3 weeks. This is after being returned to the display. My display tank has the highest flow of any of my tanks and they are all 1 system. Neither of the frag tanks (1 has corals and the other has these unsafe fish in them) have issues with cyano even though they have lower flow and similar lighting (I run T5s on my display and frag tank and the fish tank has a chinese LED fixture over it). All of these tanks have plenty of lighting to feed cyano if it wanted to grow. My display is the only one with the issue. My display is also the only one that gets sunlight exposure however I am not willing to say that is the main factor, although it could definitely be a contributing factor based on the fact that many people are successful with the lights approach. (I have done this as well - it was only temporary relief in my experience).

Where does this mass of words leave us? We all struggle together in this hobby. I hope that my rambling can help you move toward a better tank. I know that every time I pop into this thread I am either entertained or I leave with a little better understanding - sometimes both! Thanks again for taking the time to document your tank and share it with the rest of us!!

Cheers! Now I am going back to catch up on the rest of the stuff I have missed.
 
One of the most effective things you can do without adding any extra purification media is to slow down the flowrate going through the system. Generally speaking, the slower the flow, the higher the purity of the water coming out of such a system, though there is a point of diminishing returns.

Another effective technique for improving the ion reject ratio of your RO membrane is to install a salt-regenerated water softener.

Makes huge sense. I need a water softner myself.
 
Hahahahaha! :lol: Too funny! What's weird is I don't have any in my overflows or fuge tank that I can see. Just the display. I also considered adding a Kleins Butterfly as I've heard they are good Aiptasia eaters. But have to be used with caution in a reef tank. I don't have any softies / leather corals so maybe they would be a good choice?? I just tend to favor adding inverts instead of a fish I might not necessarily want to keep long term. No dunno...

My Kliens destroyed an infestation of colonial hydriods and mojanoes practically in a matter of days and has been a model citizen since then. It's a small one in my 29g tank that is mostly LPS, softies and leathers (there's an encrusting monti in there too). It hasn't bothered my RBTA either. On a side note, while not the prettiest fish it's not horrible looking either and makes your other fish look even better. Think of it as the pretty good looking girls ugly friend, suddenly that pretty good looking girl looks a lot better when her friend walks up. :lol:
 
Makes huge sense. I need a water softner myself.

I don't believe his statement is correct, running water slower through your ro membrane does not make it better, unless I'm reading his statement wrong. I believe even some people have to put booster pumps on their ro/di to improve flow through the system.
 
He did.... The goldfish bowl is his tank!

You should have seen it before he started... He already deleted those posts.
 
I don't believe his statement is correct, running water slower through your ro membrane does not make it better, unless I'm reading his statement wrong. I believe even some people have to put booster pumps on their ro/di to improve flow through the system.

Yeah, that's a misinterpretation. What Brett and I were originally discussing a couple of pages back was the potential for ammonia and/or chloramine making it through his system. And it is true that slowing down the water flow rate through the carbon pre-treatment that is standard in all RO/DI systems will definitely increase the percentage of chloramine split into its constituent parts and removed by the carbon. In order to do that on a typical RO/DI system, you want to valve down both the waste and product outputs rather than valving down the feed water.

The reference to a water softener, though, specifically refers to the reject ratio of an RO membrane. RO membranes have different reject percentages for different ions, and (importantly in Brett's case) will easily foul if the feed water is really hard (that is, it contains a lot of Ca, Mg, Fe, etc...). This is the reason that most commercial systems contain either an up-front salt regenerated water softener or an anti-foulant injection pump, or both.

And while a TFM (the most commonly used type for hobbyist systems) will leak a little of the sodium ions in the feed water coming from a softener, these are easily removed by a mixed bed DI (also a common component of a hobbyist system). Some of the contaminating ions that would otherwise be in a hard water feed not run through a water softener aren't so easily removed by a mixed bed DI.
 
Back
Top