DSB in a bucket for nitrate control
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
DrBDC
New member
Well, I'm sure there's a debate on that. But just from a surface area available for bacteria to form, there would be much much more surface area w/the finer sand. Then if you think about it, would you suffocate under 4 ft of those large balls that they used to put at places like chucky cheezes, or under 4 ft of sand? That's why you can have a shallower sand bed with the oolitic vs. the reef grade size to accomplish the same thing. But if you have no restrictions on size and depth, it wouldn't matter and you could go with some cheap playsand from home depot/lowes.
Hi guys
I started a DSB in a bucket in my 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank
My return pump is a Mag 7 so there is not a lot of flow in the sump
Should I try to position a PH with the output over the DSB to increase flow? I am worried that there is just not much flow past/over the DSB right now.
Thanks
I started a DSB in a bucket in my 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank
My return pump is a Mag 7 so there is not a lot of flow in the sump
Should I try to position a PH with the output over the DSB to increase flow? I am worried that there is just not much flow past/over the DSB right now.
Thanks
oh man, what a thread!! I apologize for what I'm sure is a redundant question--I've read much but not all of this thread...
I have a 120 I'm moving into...
Will a 5 gal bucket filled to 5" from top do it?
What is the recommended GPH through there, and would it be adviseable to have this in a stage say right after my Coil Denitrator but before the skimmer which I use for re-O2ing water before return to tank?
Flow:
overflow to safety chamber (I've seen some small fish Yashe Hashi, Blue-spot Watchmen end up in overflows, so I don't use a sock), thru 6 layers floss, to Coil Denitrator, sits in sump in case ever starts to leak, gravity dump to 2nd sump to LARGE macro chamber (CO2 rich CD water good for plants), to last chamber where water is skimmed before return. There's also a phosphate reactor I'm not using as my PO4 is zero that I'm toying with turning into a Sulphur Denitrator--it's back by the Coil denitrator.
What do you all think?
I have a 120 I'm moving into...
Will a 5 gal bucket filled to 5" from top do it?
What is the recommended GPH through there, and would it be adviseable to have this in a stage say right after my Coil Denitrator but before the skimmer which I use for re-O2ing water before return to tank?
Flow:
overflow to safety chamber (I've seen some small fish Yashe Hashi, Blue-spot Watchmen end up in overflows, so I don't use a sock), thru 6 layers floss, to Coil Denitrator, sits in sump in case ever starts to leak, gravity dump to 2nd sump to LARGE macro chamber (CO2 rich CD water good for plants), to last chamber where water is skimmed before return. There's also a phosphate reactor I'm not using as my PO4 is zero that I'm toying with turning into a Sulphur Denitrator--it's back by the Coil denitrator.
What do you all think?
oh man, what a thread!! I apologize for what I'm sure is a redundant question--I've read much but not all of this thread...
I have a 120 I'm moving into...
Will a 5 gal bucket filled to 5" from top do it?
What is the recommended GPH through there, and would it be adviseable to have this in a stage say right after my Coil Denitrator but before the skimmer which I use for re-O2ing water before return to tank?
Flow:
overflow to safety chamber (I've seen some small fish Yashe Hashi, Blue-spot Watchmen end up in overflows, so I don't use a sock), thru 6 layers floss, to Coil Denitrator, sits in sump in case ever starts to leak, gravity dump to 2nd sump to LARGE macro chamber (CO2 rich CD water good for plants), to last chamber where water is skimmed before return. There's also a phosphate reactor I'm not using as my PO4 is zero that I'm toying with turning into a Sulphur Denitrator--it's back by the Coil denitrator.
What do you all think?
I have a 120 I'm moving into...
Will a 5 gal bucket filled to 5" from top do it?
What is the recommended GPH through there, and would it be adviseable to have this in a stage say right after my Coil Denitrator but before the skimmer which I use for re-O2ing water before return to tank?
Flow:
overflow to safety chamber (I've seen some small fish Yashe Hashi, Blue-spot Watchmen end up in overflows, so I don't use a sock), thru 6 layers floss, to Coil Denitrator, sits in sump in case ever starts to leak, gravity dump to 2nd sump to LARGE macro chamber (CO2 rich CD water good for plants), to last chamber where water is skimmed before return. There's also a phosphate reactor I'm not using as my PO4 is zero that I'm toying with turning into a Sulphur Denitrator--it's back by the Coil denitrator.
What do you all think?
Anthony Calfo
New member
the size of your RDSB depends on your bioload, but yes... a 5 gall with~ 60 lbs of sand will work likely fine here. Please do reread at least the very first page (or several) of this thread closely. Therein you will find the meat of the matter re: size, flow, etc.
reeferhabit
New member
I currently have a seperate pump plumbed to a turbo twist 9W UV sterilizer, and I wanted to see if I would be feasible to send the return hose from the sterilizer into a 5 gallon RDSB and then back into the sump.
I am trying to avoid adding another pump in my sump condidering I already have a total of 4 pumps in my sump. I have seen people doing this with their skimmer, but if possible I would like to use the pump from the sterilizer.
Any thoughts?
I am trying to avoid adding another pump in my sump condidering I already have a total of 4 pumps in my sump. I have seen people doing this with their skimmer, but if possible I would like to use the pump from the sterilizer.
Any thoughts?
Alan Strauss
New member
Reeferhabit
What you are proposing is exactly how I set mine up. I have the water going from my UV to the RDSB. I still have some Nitrate so I set up a reactor with nitrate sponge.
Good Luck
What you are proposing is exactly how I set mine up. I have the water going from my UV to the RDSB. I still have some Nitrate so I set up a reactor with nitrate sponge.
Good Luck
reeferhabit
New member
Alan, you da man.
Any chance you have a picture of how you set it up?
When you said, "I set up a reactor with nitrate sponge," can you explain what you mean by that and how this is set up. I am not familar with a nitrate sponges.
Any chance you have a picture of how you set it up?
When you said, "I set up a reactor with nitrate sponge," can you explain what you mean by that and how this is set up. I am not familar with a nitrate sponges.
Alan Strauss
New member
There are a couple of pic's of my RDSB in my gallery. the plumbing is simple. I have a little RIO pump feeding my UV light and the UV the RDSB is in line, back to the sump. Note that you do not want the water moving very quickly through either the sand bed or the UV, that is why I chose to connect them to the same pump. Also if you read this whole thread you will see that you do not want any light in the sand bed which is why I built mine in a black tank with a cover. As far as the Nitrate sponge goes it is available from Kent Marine, the reactor is an inexpensive one made for phosphate removal I actually have 2 of them running 1 with RowaPhos and 1 with the Nitrate sponge.
Alan
Alan
I have read the ozone thread, the refugium thread and now this RDSB thread. I have several questions. I am building a refugium which is separate from my sump. The sump has a protein skimmer (Bubble King). The water is taken from the area after the skimmer and pumped to the refugium which has four zones: an input/aiptasia zone, an algae zone above a benethic or cryptic zone which is created with eggcrate covered by live rock rubble, and finally an output zone. Each of the three areas is separated by baffles. The input to the algae zone has a one inch lip to create horizontal flow to churn the Chaeto. The water is finally gravity fed back to the sump. I am considering insertion of a RDSB between the refugium and sump. (in case you are wondering, all equipment for filtration is in the basement).
My questions are:
1. Is there value in the RDSB in addition to the refugium (refugium is 30 x 20 x 16)?
2. If so, is it better to have greater surface area or greater depth? I can get plastic bins that are longer, wider, or taller at the sacrifice of the other dimensions.
3. I have 350 gallons on this tank, I was considering a RDSB of 12 gallons. Does that seem reasonable?
4. Flow through the refugium is 320 gallons per hour (Eheim 1250) will that be ok for the RDSB?
5. I am committed to the refiugium but I can either go with ozone or a RDSB in addition to it. Any thoughts on which would be the better addition?
And Mr. Calfo, if you are reading, I have purchased both of your books. Thanks in advance for any information.
My questions are:
1. Is there value in the RDSB in addition to the refugium (refugium is 30 x 20 x 16)?
2. If so, is it better to have greater surface area or greater depth? I can get plastic bins that are longer, wider, or taller at the sacrifice of the other dimensions.
3. I have 350 gallons on this tank, I was considering a RDSB of 12 gallons. Does that seem reasonable?
4. Flow through the refugium is 320 gallons per hour (Eheim 1250) will that be ok for the RDSB?
5. I am committed to the refiugium but I can either go with ozone or a RDSB in addition to it. Any thoughts on which would be the better addition?
And Mr. Calfo, if you are reading, I have purchased both of your books. Thanks in advance for any information.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I'm still waiting for someone to post a case where they have added a remote DSB bucket and had there nitrate drop from a significant number (>40 ppm) to a low number (<5 ppm). This is surprising for such a huge thread with so many contributors.
Some have posted that there nitrate is zero, but none have attributed it directly to the remote DSB bucket. The only example was at the beginning of the thread where Anthony Calfo described a 55 gallon tank filled with sand at a LFS. He didn't give all of the details of the tank. It may have been recently set-up, or it may have been in the hands of a typical LFS staff, so I don't know how qualified the endorsement is.
Several people, including myself, have asked this question throughout the thread, but no one has come forward yet. I am a firm believer in DSB use for nitrate reduction, but most of this is based on theory, not empirical data. Proving DSB's work is a relatively easy task with tangible scientific evidence behind it. Proving the quantity and configuration of the sand is another matter entirely.
The most significant DSB study I know of is the one by Bob Toonen, but it has its' limitations. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature
Some have posted that there nitrate is zero, but none have attributed it directly to the remote DSB bucket. The only example was at the beginning of the thread where Anthony Calfo described a 55 gallon tank filled with sand at a LFS. He didn't give all of the details of the tank. It may have been recently set-up, or it may have been in the hands of a typical LFS staff, so I don't know how qualified the endorsement is.
Several people, including myself, have asked this question throughout the thread, but no one has come forward yet. I am a firm believer in DSB use for nitrate reduction, but most of this is based on theory, not empirical data. Proving DSB's work is a relatively easy task with tangible scientific evidence behind it. Proving the quantity and configuration of the sand is another matter entirely.
The most significant DSB study I know of is the one by Bob Toonen, but it has its' limitations. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature
Malifluous
New member
Mr Wilson, I'm still waiting for you to do the experiment .
Crazy4salth2o
New member
I think no matter how you look at it (empirically, conjecturally, or otherwise) a DSB or RDSB has proven it's value as part of a reef tank system. Whether in the tank or remote...it works the same way as long as you end up with at least about 4" of sand. Calfo correctly makes the point that an unlit sand bed is simply easier to manage in every aspect of application.
MetalReef9
New member
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