The Plummer
New member
Would a salt water fern and/or a dead man's finger plant be a good start in phosphate binding/removal?
DSB in a bucket for nitrate control
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Any marcoalgae will be a good start. However some grows faster than others and some are more invasive than others. Chaetomorpha is what most people recommend to use for nutrient export because of its fast growing and non invasive properties.
crsswift70
Active member
Chaeto and ulva get my vote. In a study i read, Chaeto, cladophora (i don't think anyone wants this) and ulva were the top exporters of phosphates. However, ulva actually outgrew the chaeto, so maybe it would be a wash since they measured phosphate levels by a set sample size.
The Plummer
New member
Thanks for your input, I'd rather implement natural approaches first and this makes sense. I really want to attack phosphates agressively to avoid old tank syndrome as much as possible.
guserto4
New member
My apologies if this was covered already in the 70 or so pages of this thread (such a good one!!!) BUT it seems like dry oolitic sand and perhaps adding into the mixture argonite sand (for phosphates) is the way to go- would it help or hinder the seeding of the DSB to get a little bit of bagged LS from the LFS and add that into the mix as well? CaribSea or other?
The Plummer
New member
Live sand is neither necessary nor desirable. The sand will take on bacteria on its own and remain "clean". LS will create detritus from die off. You want the sand in the bucket to stay as clean as possible as well as free from light as possible.
Try it it works great, I'm having great results, never had ammonia, nitrite, or nitrates. And yes, any calcium based sand will buffer PH wonderfully.
The Plummer
New member
I should have articulated what I've found to be the best method for implementation, as theirs lots of arguing about what works.
I bought 60 lbs of aragonite sugar fine sand and 5 lbs of aragonite aquarium gravel. 2- 3/4 bulkheads and appropriate threaded by hose barn nipples, one 3/4 street elbow (PVC glue x ups thread in my case), 1- 1"x 1" x 3/4" tee.
Drill two holes in the lid of the bucket. One dead center ( intake side) and one near the edge of the lid (exhaust side).
After installing both bulkheads, screw the elbow on the bulk head located in the center of the lid, pointing away from the other bulk head, then glue the tee on the elbow parallel with the lid. Fill the bucket with the fine sand first, then top with the larger gravel.
Make sure the lid of the bucket remains close to the same height as your sump level is when the power goes out, or the lid will pop off and you'll have a flood on your hands.
The Plummer
New member
I personally have it on a 55 gal DT, 35 gal sump FOWLR. I've NEVER experienced any nitrate and I set my DSB the day I set up the aquarium. As well as I've NEVER done a water change.
I've read that it can take a few months to come fully on line, but because of the differing methods (size/type sand, volume of water passing by, bioload, etc.) your total effectiveness may vary.
My thoughts on the matter are this, if I manage to stock my system to beyond the capability of the DSB, I'll simply make another one and daisy chain it behind the one I already have.
If I were to guess, from what I've read earlie, probably fully effective to about 120 gal normally stocked, but that's just a guess.
I'm sure this at least one of these questions were asked before but haven't seen it yet reading through.
- Are there any issues with cycling or diatoms when adding a new bucket of sand or taking down an old bucket of sand? (Dry aragonite sand)
- How do you know when the sand is getting "old" and too nutrient rich? Is it an annual replacement thing.
- What does this mean (taken from Natural Filtration Part 3 in Reefkeeping Mag):
Don't we want it to be anaerobic?
- Are there any issues with cycling or diatoms when adding a new bucket of sand or taking down an old bucket of sand? (Dry aragonite sand)
- How do you know when the sand is getting "old" and too nutrient rich? Is it an annual replacement thing.
- What does this mean (taken from Natural Filtration Part 3 in Reefkeeping Mag):
Don't we want it to be anaerobic?
The Plummer
New member
I think what there referring too is there is a "sweet spot" depth wise where the majority of the anoxic bacteria reside in. The deeper the sand bed below that spot, has significantly diminishing returns and will only benefit is PH buffering.
I don't really see a problem, as reefs always need more calcium. But maybe your just wasting sand is the theory. IDK.
Thank you. ^^^
I wasn't worried about the sand itself having issues. I was referring to the sand causing a mini-cycle (supposedly when you add a lot of new rock, dry or live, to an established tank it can cause a mini-cycle, not sure if this is true or if it applies to sand)
I was also concerned about adding a bunch of new sand that might cause a diatom bloom in the display.
I wasn't worried about the sand itself having issues. I was referring to the sand causing a mini-cycle (supposedly when you add a lot of new rock, dry or live, to an established tank it can cause a mini-cycle, not sure if this is true or if it applies to sand)
I was also concerned about adding a bunch of new sand that might cause a diatom bloom in the display.
The Plummer
New member
Oh, now I understand.
I don't know why I put myself in these positions. I do this all the time. I study someone else's material and develop a working understanding of it, then share my knowledge, and before I know it, I sound like some kind of "expert". Until someone asks a question that I'm really not 100% sure of.
The reason I qualify myself here is, I've studied Anthony Calfo's work and done a great deal of critical thinking about the soundness of the basic principals. To my mind the science is sound. The only REAL improvement that I desired to really offer was the design improvement that I discovered by installing the bulk heads in the lid, with the addition of the internal intake elbow/tee diffuser.
I offered my idea due to the great arguments much earlier in this thread about bulk heads not sealing to the curved surface of a bucket, the trapped nitrogen air in the top of the bucket, the impending sandstorm from fast moving water across very fine sand, etc.,etc.
That being said, now you know how much weight to put into my humble opinion.
So I'll offer it, since you asked. Regarding a diatom bloom by adding new sand, so what about it. Seems like a small price to pay to ultimately increase your bioload capacity by what seems to be exponentially.
Also, doesn't a diatom bloom usually indicate sillicants are present in the water column? Not necessarily a good thing, but the diatom bloom is a natural form of removal of said sillicants, and the subsequent die off ( once the silica is exhausted) indicates the eradication, and the protein skimmer can then go to work on removing the problem. That's what happened in my case, though I put my RDSB on line from the first day of setting up the display.
Don't mean to sound like a A-hole, and I may be entirely wrong, but my memory is pretty good when I'm interested in a subject, and if memory serves, I believe I'm generally correct in my logic, if not I'm open to correction.
I believe the proof is in the results here, not much "armchair" speculating and naysaying necessary, the logic is sound and the filter just plain works.
CUDOS TO YOU MR. CALFO.
The Plummer
New member
I guess I could, but none of my equipment is anything to be proud of. All my stuff is old school, repurposed from the 1990 era of technology. I'd be embarrassed by how little I've spent on this project, to proudly display it here.
Everything from my stand, which is nothing more than my oldest daughter's white dresser(painted rust oleum black), to the Lowe's 4' LED shop light, to the Rubbermaid 40 gallon trash can sump, to the 1990's HOB wet/dry filter, to the 5 gallon DSB.
I'll leave it to your imagination, as it will probably paint a prettier picture than it really is.
OK, I've talked myself into trying to post pics from my iPhone. Lets see if it works
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The Plummer
New member
Naturally the most embarrassing pic would be first. That's the temporary sump. Unfortunately for me, temporary sometimes takes on a permanent appearance.
I'll try another since that worked. Here's version 1.2 of the RDSB. V1.3 will hopefully soon follow. Notice the bucket is sitting on a sub woofer speaker box. It's amazing what you'll use to solve a problem when the pressure in the bucket is trying to blow the lid off.
I'll try another since that worked. Here's version 1.2 of the RDSB. V1.3 will hopefully soon follow. Notice the bucket is sitting on a sub woofer speaker box. It's amazing what you'll use to solve a problem when the pressure in the bucket is trying to blow the lid off.
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The Plummer
New member
Here's one of the DT
REALLY!!! Upside down? I tried to fix it, you'll just have to stand on your head to look at this one!
REALLY!!! Upside down? I tried to fix it, you'll just have to stand on your head to look at this one!
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The Plummer
New member
Overall pic. Notice again the temporary wiring on the light.
I can't take a pic of the HOB filter, as the tank is pushed up tight to the wall.
It's OK to laugh at my expense. This is how a cheapskate does it.
I can't take a pic of the HOB filter, as the tank is pushed up tight to the wall.
It's OK to laugh at my expense. This is how a cheapskate does it.
Thanks Plummer.
Would it work just as well to put a hole in the lid with a black pipe/elbow setup sticking out so to let nitrogen air out, while not letting light in? And use uniseals to connect the pipe on either side.
Does it work best to have the inlet/outlet at equal height on either side of the bucket, or have the outlet lower than the inlet?
If anyone has set this up on an established tank please share your experiences.
Would it work just as well to put a hole in the lid with a black pipe/elbow setup sticking out so to let nitrogen air out, while not letting light in? And use uniseals to connect the pipe on either side.
Does it work best to have the inlet/outlet at equal height on either side of the bucket, or have the outlet lower than the inlet?
If anyone has set this up on an established tank please share your experiences.
