DSB in a bucket for nitrate control
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Bill Shultz
New member
Hey Anthony,
How about adding the following acronym to the list on the RC home page:
FOWGHA
That would pretty much describe my tank before I found this thread.
How about adding the following acronym to the list on the RC home page:
FOWGHA
That would pretty much describe my tank before I found this thread.
LOL @ FOWGHA
Since you are relatively close to cleveland.... when I was looking back in June, I was told the "old castle" white play sand at Petitti Garden Centers near cleveland was aragonite... I drove there from TOledo a day after someone bought some and they only had one pallet of it left and it wasn't aragonite.... more likely to find it at a garden center then a big chain IMO.
I also exchanged PMS with someone on here that found it (southdown) at Canton Rd Garden center in Akron... but it was a while ago...maybe give them a call.
HTH.
Since you are relatively close to cleveland.... when I was looking back in June, I was told the "old castle" white play sand at Petitti Garden Centers near cleveland was aragonite... I drove there from TOledo a day after someone bought some and they only had one pallet of it left and it wasn't aragonite.... more likely to find it at a garden center then a big chain IMO.
I also exchanged PMS with someone on here that found it (southdown) at Canton Rd Garden center in Akron... but it was a while ago...maybe give them a call.
HTH.
About to get my 5 gal RDSB started; picked up 60 lbs aragamax oolitic on boxing day. One question; what kind of bulkheads or fittings are you guys using on your buckets (I'll be using flex vinyl tubing to hook it up)? Do they sell those rubber gasket-type things at home depot? I'm using a 5gal IO salt bucket btw..
Thanks!
I'll let you guys know how the RDSB works out for me in a bit!
Thanks!
I'll let you guys know how the RDSB works out for me in a bit!
ReefLurker
Premium Member
Our local farm supply store carries bulkheads.
Those are called "uniseals"-- I'm not sure if home depot or lowes does and if they do, if they carry small sizes-- I bought an up-flushing toilet at lowes for my basement and the tank has these so they might--- I think the size for my toilet was 1 1/4" though for a sink connection, then a 2" for the piping outlet and 3" or 4" for the vent line... not sure if they would have smaller sizes...
you can get them online but this site has a $10 minimum order-- http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/8600/cid/2009 so you have to buy 4 of them or 2 and something else...
kysmith
New member
I have a 29G tank and had a 10g tank all plumbed for turning into a fuge. When I saw this thread I decided to give a RDSB a try first since I hadn't added the macro and water yet. I just installed a 4-5" DSB in the 10g tank and have about 2-3" of water running over it. I'll keep everyone updated about the progress of the tank.
Kyle
Kyle
Bill,
Thanks for your input. Why do you think the buckets would never crash? I would think the bacteria would eventually die. Maybe I need to take a biology class. I think I understand the bacteria growing in the RDSB eating Nitrates. What happens when the bacteria die? I understand the food and detritris will not build up if you pre-filter, but if the bacteria die do they just keep consuming themselfs? And if that is the case what happens when the bacteria die at the same rate they consume themselfs? Then the bacteria cannot handle the nitrates?
What am I missing?
Thanks,
Chris
Thanks for your input. Why do you think the buckets would never crash? I would think the bacteria would eventually die. Maybe I need to take a biology class. I think I understand the bacteria growing in the RDSB eating Nitrates. What happens when the bacteria die? I understand the food and detritris will not build up if you pre-filter, but if the bacteria die do they just keep consuming themselfs? And if that is the case what happens when the bacteria die at the same rate they consume themselfs? Then the bacteria cannot handle the nitrates?
What am I missing?
Thanks,
Chris
Bill Shultz
New member
I use the bulkheads you can buy at most any good (well stocked) ACE hardware.
3/4" Bulkheads from ACE
I haven't been able to find these at Home Depots around by me for one reason or another.
I also agree with Marcelog in that the buckets are flexible enough that you don't need to worry about finding some special curved bulkheads. If you use the standard bulkheads from the link I provided you won't go wrong provided they are tightened down sufficiently.
captbunzo
Premium Member
My two cents, I REALLY like these bulkheads:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/6835/cid/1885
They are much thicker, solid, and easier to grip then standard bulkheads. I will, if possible, never use the standard kind again.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/6835/cid/1885
They are much thicker, solid, and easier to grip then standard bulkheads. I will, if possible, never use the standard kind again.
Bill Shultz
New member
guntercb,
I happen to have a B.S. in Biology (and have learned way more about fishkeeping from RC than from my years in college). I would not recommend you take a class to understand this concept.
Let me see if I can do your question justice. . .
Basically in any closed environment (such as your fishtank) you will reach a balance or equilibrium point eventually. This is particularly true of the balance between the bacteria in the tank, and the wastes that they consume for food. Take the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle that occurs in our tanks when we first start them up (and continues indefinately of course). After a few weeks the amount of bacteria increase to feed off of the waste in the water. When they've reached a number sufficient to begin to remove the ammonia we as fishkeepers can see these levels begin to drop from our water measurements.
In a tank that is well established, when we add additional fish to our "stabilized" environment two things occur: the fish will be producing more waste (more "food" will be in the tank for the bacteria) and the second is that there would be a quantitive rise in the number of bacteria because there is now more food available for them. Oppositely, if we lower our tank's fish bioload -- or maybe feed more cautiously -- then there would be less waste introduced in the tank and the bacteria levels will subsequently drop due to the restricted resources (i.e. their food)for them all to share.
In this thread we are working on populating our RDSB's with nitrate consuming bacteria. With the deep sand in the buckets we provide the denitrifing bacteria an environment where they can survive. Their "food" is in the form of the nitrates that are dissolved in the tank water. At some point the bacteria will reach a balance between the amount of food they have avaiable and the numbers of bacteria that can be supported by this limited amount of food. In an tank with an established RDSB setup, we would hope to see the nitrate levels measure at near zero. This reading just means that the nitrate produced by the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle is being produced at the exact rate at which the nitrate consuming bacteria can remove it from the system. A beautiful equilibrium.
Changes to the system will alter the balance, but the system will again return to a new equilibrium point at some later time. If for example you increase your nutrient export in the form of more efficient skimming you would essentially be lowering the amount of nitrates circulating in the tank. The bacteria would respond to this by lowering their total numbers. This happens because there simply is not enough food avialable to support their previously larger population. Bacteria are born, live, and dye in a cycle just like us (albeit much shorter) and they will reach these equilibrium points very rapidly. Because they are in a closed environment, they must conform to the resource restrictions that they are given. Some of these resources include their food (nitrates for our example of nitrate consuming bacteria) and room to live (in our bucket DSBs).
Make sense?
I happen to have a B.S. in Biology (and have learned way more about fishkeeping from RC than from my years in college). I would not recommend you take a class to understand this concept.
Let me see if I can do your question justice. . .
Basically in any closed environment (such as your fishtank) you will reach a balance or equilibrium point eventually. This is particularly true of the balance between the bacteria in the tank, and the wastes that they consume for food. Take the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle that occurs in our tanks when we first start them up (and continues indefinately of course). After a few weeks the amount of bacteria increase to feed off of the waste in the water. When they've reached a number sufficient to begin to remove the ammonia we as fishkeepers can see these levels begin to drop from our water measurements.
In a tank that is well established, when we add additional fish to our "stabilized" environment two things occur: the fish will be producing more waste (more "food" will be in the tank for the bacteria) and the second is that there would be a quantitive rise in the number of bacteria because there is now more food available for them. Oppositely, if we lower our tank's fish bioload -- or maybe feed more cautiously -- then there would be less waste introduced in the tank and the bacteria levels will subsequently drop due to the restricted resources (i.e. their food)for them all to share.
In this thread we are working on populating our RDSB's with nitrate consuming bacteria. With the deep sand in the buckets we provide the denitrifing bacteria an environment where they can survive. Their "food" is in the form of the nitrates that are dissolved in the tank water. At some point the bacteria will reach a balance between the amount of food they have avaiable and the numbers of bacteria that can be supported by this limited amount of food. In an tank with an established RDSB setup, we would hope to see the nitrate levels measure at near zero. This reading just means that the nitrate produced by the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle is being produced at the exact rate at which the nitrate consuming bacteria can remove it from the system. A beautiful equilibrium.
Changes to the system will alter the balance, but the system will again return to a new equilibrium point at some later time. If for example you increase your nutrient export in the form of more efficient skimming you would essentially be lowering the amount of nitrates circulating in the tank. The bacteria would respond to this by lowering their total numbers. This happens because there simply is not enough food avialable to support their previously larger population. Bacteria are born, live, and dye in a cycle just like us (albeit much shorter) and they will reach these equilibrium points very rapidly. Because they are in a closed environment, they must conform to the resource restrictions that they are given. Some of these resources include their food (nitrates for our example of nitrate consuming bacteria) and room to live (in our bucket DSBs).
Make sense?
Bill Shultz
New member
captbunzo's bulkheads look great also. Really no difference between mine and his. I just like running to the local hardware store and getting them right away so that I can implement my new plans on the same day as opposed to ordering them online and waiting a few days.
guntercb,
Also regarding your concerns of RDSB's crashing. . . look over the first few pages of this thread. RDSB's don't have the same problems as traditional or in-tank DSB's because of using prefiltered water, high flow, etc. They are not as prone to becoming nutrient sinks and leading to this problem of a potential "crash." (which is even debated among the DSB people).
guntercb,
Also regarding your concerns of RDSB's crashing. . . look over the first few pages of this thread. RDSB's don't have the same problems as traditional or in-tank DSB's because of using prefiltered water, high flow, etc. They are not as prone to becoming nutrient sinks and leading to this problem of a potential "crash." (which is even debated among the DSB people).
prezioso73
New member
All the Southdown sand that I have is frome HD in Toledo. My brother in law lives there and got it for me quite a while ago...I think we are all going to have a hard time getting sand from any hardware store until "sandbox" season comes along. 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6365631#post6365631 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by prezioso73
All the Southdown sand that I have is frome HD in Toledo. My brother in law lives there and got it for me quite a while ago...I think we are all going to have a hard time getting sand from any hardware store until "sandbox" season comes along.
Definitely not sold in Toledo anymore (at least last spring/summer when I was searching)... I checked everywhere in Toledo.... HD, LOwes, Meijer, Walmart, K-mart, etc.... if you bought a bag of sand in toledo with a hole in it, chances are I poked it (for my vinegar tests)....
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6365631#post6365631 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by prezioso73
All the Southdown sand that I have is frome HD in Toledo. My brother in law lives there and got it for me quite a while ago...I think we are all going to have a hard time getting sand from any hardware store until "sandbox" season comes along.
I just bought some quickrete premium playsand at lowes for my bucket DSB-- 50 pounds for $2.95.... this is silica sand-- I found a thread on a hermit crab message board about it
http://www.crabstreetjournal.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1320&highlight=
and someone there contacted the packaging plant.. its about 95% silica sand and very clean (not dusty)....
Here is an MSDS (material safety data sheet) sheet for it....
http://www.quikrete.com/downloads/MSDS B Sands and gravel.pdf
in case anyone else decides to use this--
I plan on using this with an inch or two layer of courser caribsea aragonite reef sand on top-- shouldn't blow around as much as the sand I bought-- will hopefully be installed tomorrow sometime...
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