DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

[kimoyo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6512998#post6512998 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tigerarmy40
its crazy, but paul you were at the same thing a week ago, and the first thread I find you in you are still beating the same dead horse!!! simply amazing......

Greg - I've been following this thread since it started. Have you read this thread?

I have reported your post and will ask you not to attack me for no reason. I do not think I should have to tolerate you following me around RC attacking me :lol:.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6512998#post6512998 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tigerarmy40
as to your question^ I beleive they are considered nitrate factories due to the fact that they build up nutreints are are largely not disturbed or cleand so they accumilate masss amounts of detritus and sediment! with that being said the actual sediment would have to be a filter to filter itself! I may not be explaining myself as clearly as I want to be but I think anyone with common sense will understand!

As far as this part of your post, what are you talking about?

This is not the reason but if you want to say it is fine.

Barry and others were discussing under what conditions nitrites are converted to nitrates. Two other people had questions about this already and Barry is trying to explain. Can we now get back to the discussion?

 

[orientalexpress]

i start mine deep sand bucket last month,what cuase my sands to clump?thank


lapsan

 

[kimoyo]

<a
href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513077#post6513077 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
Paul, I think we just "passed replies", did you see the edit, are we "straight" now?

Yep, just saw your edit thanks.

 

[tigerarmy40]

well , my bad! it just seems that every time I find you in a thread you are picking apart what people are writing and looking for inconsistancies in a contradictory fashion rather then trying to help anyone learn....sorry if I got you all wrong

if you look at your last question I think the aswer is already there! just because nitrite to nitrate happens in low oxygen areas does not mean that nitrate can not build up in a oxygen rich envirement. actually being that nitrate are reduced in aneorobic areas makes this question void dont you think?

 

[barryhc]

Paul was picking on my mistakes, and rightly so. We need therefore to throw out some of the questioning that went on there, because it was being used to "wake me up", and not because Paul doesn't understand it.

See what I mean ? ? > barryhc

 

[kimoyo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513268#post6513268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tigerarmy40
well , my bad! it just seems that every time I find you in a thread you are picking apart what people are writing and looking for inconsistancies in a contradictory fashion rather then trying to help anyone learn....

I'm reporting this post also.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513268#post6513268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tigerarmy40
if you look at your last question I think the aswer is already there! just because nitrite to nitrate happens in low oxygen areas does not mean that nitrate can not build up in a oxygen rich envirement.

Instead of attacking me you will see this is what the question was about. Does nitrite get converted into nitrate in low oxygen areas? If it does cool but that isn't what most people say. I believe Spuds and Weatherman asked about this also but it wasn't clarified and I was confused myself until Barryhc said he had made a mistake on this page.

 

[barryhc]

I think RC may be "evolving into a "better place". "WE" should try to make the most of it.

> barryhc

 

[tigerarmy40]

I agree! I will sit back and listen!! once again if I have it wrong I apologize......

 

[kimoyo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513307#post6513307 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
Paul was picking on my mistakes, and rightly so.

Barry, just so this is clear, I wasn't picking on your mistakes. I was trying to understand what you were saying. If you had said it correctly than cool, I just wanted to understand how it all fit together. I think asking questions while being respectful is the best way to learn. Again, thanks for the explanation.

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513359#post6513359 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kimoyo
Barry, just so this is clear, I wasn't picking on your mistakes. I was trying to understand what you were saying. If you had said it correctly than cool, I just wanted to understand how it all fit together. I think asking questions while being respectful is the best way to learn. Again, thanks for the explanation.

I understand Paul, but you or anyone else can "pick on" my mistakes as much as they want. It didn't bother me at all, and it never will from anyone.

Thanks just the same. Check PM.

Happy Reef Keeping ! > barryhc

 

[kimoyo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513244#post6513244 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orientalexpress
i start mine deep sand bucket last month,what cuase my sands to clump?thank


lapsan

Anthony talked about this before

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6000078#post6000078 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo
aragonite only fuses when you allow your pH to drop low and usually rapidly as with misdosing calcium supplements (too much kalk too fast, for example) or having unstable pH (dropping very low at night).

It's easy with good water quality/stability to avoid having aragonite fuse.

I'm so very strict about maintaining a strong and stable pH (8.3-8.6... never lower than 8.3 at night)... I have yet to have aragonite fuse. I recommend high and stable pH for more than a few good reasons aside form this issue.

FWIW

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513413#post6513413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kimoyo
Anthony talked about this before

Here is my concern with this explanation. The pH obviously "drops" considerably, at depth, in the substrate, so the water column pH reading does not circumvent this acidic" condition does it?

And also, IF, this acidic condition in the substrate has any tendency to "clump", then would it not "make sense", that finer grain sizes, which have much larger "surface area" ( particularly "mud" ) , would further aggravate the problem, if it existed at all?

> barryhc

 

[mhurley]

[flamealert]

 

[inwall75]

Yeah, good point Paul.

Sometimes bacteria growing rapidly will cause little balls of sand if it is fine enough. That could be described as "clumping" but the grains don't really fuse together. This type of clumping is no big deal.

The type of clumping Paul is talking about is not good. Proper water chemistry is important as stated above. Additionally, some people put bristle worms in the sand to help out. However, they cannot overcome swinging water chemistry issues unless you have a LOT of them so consider them a second line of defense.

 

[inwall75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513470#post6513470 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
Here is my concern with this explanation. The pH obviously "drops" considerably, at depth, in the substrate, so the water column pH reading does not circumvent this acidic" condition does it?

And also, IF, this acidic condition in the substrate has any tendency to "clump", then would it not "make sense", that finer grain sizes, which have much larger "surface area" ( particularly "mud" ) , would further aggravate the problem, if it existed at all?

> barryhc

Think of a Carbonate snowstorm caused by adding too much Calcium too fast.

 

[Airman]

Wow what a thread. For those of you who are reading the last page start at the beginning. My thanks to Anthony for starting this thread. I plan to add a RDSB to my system. I am going to use a combination of Zenmanââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s container and Billââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s choice for substrate.

ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œBioballs are accurately described as "nitrate factories" because their use, alone, tends to be associated with high nitrate levels. There are no oxygen poor areas on the surface of bioballs.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ Quote Weatherman.


ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œThere are lots of ways to plumb it. You could use an old trickle filter, have the water go through bioballs from a drip plate, then into a resevoir, then a baffle leading to a compartment filled with sand almost to the top, then water flow flow over the sand bed. Then one more baffle and a return section.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ Quote Glimmerman.


I have a good system similar to what Glimmerman described. I have a wet/dry trickle filter with a mechanical pre-filter and chem-tray for carbon. The pre-filter keeps the bio-balls clean. The Weatherman is correct in saying bio-balls are a bad thing if they are used alone. The key to my success with bio-balls is the fact that I also use a protein skimmer, sump, refugium, macro algae, and a DSB. Rick Crandall helped me build this wet/dry eight years ago and it has been a champ all these years. I believe a RDSB will add more equilibrium of the system.

 

[tigerarmy40]

are bio balls realy needed if a tank has a sufficient amount of live rock? I would think the only application where bioballs are needed is lfs display tanks with minimal live rock in them!?!? I guess what I am asking is are we going to see bio balls fased out as the hobby progresses?

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6513615#post6513615 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Airman
I have a good system similar to what Glimmerman described. I have a wet/dry trickle filter with a mechanical pre-filter and chem-tray for carbon.

I kind of like mechanical filters, but you get the "Nitrate Factory" label, before you can say the second word.

Much more serious however, Airman, you have now said the "third most dangerous" word, CARBON ! ! :lol: :lol:

Now what ? ? ?

> barryhc

 

[Airman]

Yes, I have about 75 pounds of live rock also. My philosophy is to break down the waste as quick as possible.

 

[Airman]

The mechanical pre-filter (sponge) is changed daily cleaned and reused. Carbon is used as needed.