DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

[Lordhelmet]

thats what I've understood, that as soon as it goes bad you can just replace it and wash it.
since it is remotely attached to the tank there isn't any disruption to the main tank.

 

[RV8tor]

I thought I would show how I setup my DSP today. My Nitrate arent too bad today, they read about 10 with a Marine Basic nitrate test. I have had it above 40 at times. I could tell the zoos didn't like it too much at that level. So after reading the 15 pages I thought I had nothing to lose. I have a 220 gallon tank with a 50 gallon sump (pictured). I got plain old play sand from Menards and washed 200 lbs of the sand and ended up with about 170 lbs or so after the wash, a lot of sand went down the driveway. Thank God for 50 degree weather in January in Illinois. Anyway, I also put 15 LBS of Aragonite sand on top of the play sand. I have to finish plumbing the output of my skimmer and shorten the pipe and put a 90 degree elbow on it so it doesn't stur the sand. That is why I have the plastic scoop there temporally . I haven't decided if I should put the cover over the DSB at this time or not, thought it might be a good frag setup as well. It is all gravity fed from the skimmer so I didn't have to use an additional pump, Let me know what you guys think. Oh, the other 5 gallon bucket in the sump is the input to the skimmer, another one of Anthony's recommendations for inproving skimming. Thanks Anthony, where ever you may be.

 

[Brad Black]

I know of someone who has just set up a new 55 gal reef with very high doccumented nitrates... I have sent this info to him and hopefully he will give it a try and keep us updated on the testing results. Will let you know...

 

[Brad Black]

On another topic, I may be purchasing a used 100 gal complete reef set up, it has a 3-5 in sand bed in the actual tank itself. If I buy it and move it, what should I do with the old sand? Should I try to keep it or should I start over? Should I try not to disturb it and suffer with the heavy tank home or what?? Also, what about the rest of the critters (fish, corals, inverts etc)?

 

[RV8tor]

When I bought my 220 and had to move everything, I didn't use the old sandbed, I thought about going bare bottom but after a month I couldn't stand the look so I bought new crushed coral and put it in. Using the old sandbed I don't think would hurt, except for all the poo. I moved all the water, fish, LR, everything. It was a 8 hour drive home, I put the fish in a colmen cooler, the one that keep things cold for days in 90 degree weather. I lost only one fish and that was over a week later. Do not haul the tank with water or sand in it, you risk breaking it. Just my 2c. Good Luck.

 

[ONAGI]

Hi Everyone,
I have been following this thread for quite some time now. I have been keeping up with all the posts and would like to try this set-up. I have not seen the issue of cycling addressed with using an RSDB, or maybe I overlooked it. Is there a cycling period that the RDSB should go through (similar to new tanks) before it is plumbed into the primary water column of your existing tank set-up? Thanks in advance for consideration of this question...Omar

 

[SaltwaterDaddy]

Based on my understanding from all these great info is just hook it up and it starts working. You start with clean, virgin sand. Nothing to cycle. Once you get started using one, swapping it out is a different story. That answser is spelled out in prior posts.

 

[KEstep]

No cycle required. I just hooked mine up and let it go.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

you are quite welcome, RV8tor

Thanks for the update with pic

 

[Fred_J]

I have very little room 75g stand. I dont see how I could get a 5 gal bucket in there. I do have a 3 or 4 gal semi flexable bucket that I use for my skimmer, if I add another bucket of this size will that be enough sand to control my runaway nitrates.
Thanks
Fred

 

[Glimmerman911]

Fred, a small RDSB would be better than no RDSB, it will help control nitrates.

Whether it eliminates them depends on how much you are producing compared with the RDSB's ability to turn them into Nitrogen.

I would add as large a bucket as you can fit, better than not adding one at all.

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6466216#post6466216 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fred_J
I have very little room 75g stand. I dont see how I could get a 5 gal bucket in there. I do have a 3 or 4 gal semi flexable bucket that I use for my skimmer, if I add another bucket of this size will that be enough sand to control my runaway nitrates.
Thanks
Fred

My 02.

As I understand de-nitrification ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ it takes place in the anoxic regions of the sand bed .. not the anaerobic regions as often touted in some books. As such, a super deep sand bed will not provide the incremental de-nitrification benefits that some think.

 

[Glimmerman911]

And what is the difference between anoxic and anaerobic? I thought they both meant "without air" or "without oxygen"

 

[grochmal]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the difference between those two words is.

http://toxics.usgs.gov/definitions/anaerobic.html

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6467958#post6467958 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Glimmerman911
And what is the difference between anoxic and anaerobic? I thought they both meant "without air" or "without oxygen"

DSB's have aerobic, anoxic and anaerobic regions in their sand bed -- with the anoxic region sitting between the aerobic and anaerobic regions. The anoxic region has some/more oxygen than the anaerobic region. Basically its the difference between severe depeletion and having zip oxygen.

 

[Glimmerman911]

I wonder what the most "efficient" shape for denitrification is, meaning what is the ratio of width to depth that creates the most denitrification.

At what depths are aerobic/anaerobic/anoxic regions? This will depend on flow too.

While I believe that 5g bucket probably works, much more testing and research is needed to really know what is going on, to determine the most efficient flow, depth, and width for a RDSB.

 

[grochmal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6468210#post6468210 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
DSB's have aerobic, anoxic and anaerobic regions in their sand bed -- with the anoxic region sitting between the aerobic and anaerobic regions. The anoxic region has some/more oxygen than the anaerobic region. Basically its the difference between severe depeletion and having zip oxygen.

But if you look at the definitions on the website I listed, they both say "without oxygen".
And wouldn't the anaerobic bacteria (anaerobes) that breakdown nitrate (anaerobic biodegradation) live in this oxygen free zone?

Just trying to get it all straight.

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6468332#post6468332 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by grochmal
But if you look at the definitions on the website I listed, they both say "without oxygen".
And wouldn't the anaerobic bacteria (anaerobes) that breakdown nitrate (anaerobic biodegradation) live in this oxygen free zone?

Just trying to get it all straight.

I suspect your best place to do additional research on de-nitrification may be web sites discussing waste water processing .. big issue and there is plenty of info.

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6468331#post6468331 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Glimmerman911
I wonder what the most "efficient" shape for denitrification is, meaning what is the ratio of width to depth that creates the most denitrification.efficient flow, depth, and width for a RDSB.

Thats why you will find a great disparity between sand beds .. some people with super fine sand beds will see nitrate reduction with depths that Dr. Ron would say are too shallow ... some with coarser grained sand and deeper depths get less de-nitrification.

The point I was trying to make is that there is a definite "diminishing returns" element on deep sand beds and that a super deep bucket may not give you better results than a smaller bucket with a 5 inch sand bed ... I suspect length combined with a reasonable depth is significantly better than depth combined with small surface area.

 

[JimR]

Read all 16 pages... It was interesting.

Just so I understand. Can I have the overflow box gravity feed into the bucket, then bucket gravity feed into sump, then Mag 5 lift 3-4 feet back into the tank?

Bucket should have a lid with a rubber "O" ring to seal it ( wife is a Chef, gunna have her snag me a BBQ sauce pail ).
I'm not sure where I'm putting the skimmer, sump or HOB tank. Sump/Fug will be 10 gal if under stand or 29 gal if I decide to go through a wall with the hoses. Main tank is a 55gal.