If the bucket is going to drain into the display tank then it will have to be higher than the display tank. The pump will have to overcome the weight of the water in the tube going up to the bucket from the tank (head pressure). Just measure how far above the tank the return fitting is and that will be your head pressure. If you seal everything water tight you could probably mount the bucket even to or lower than the tank but the chances of a leak and the resulting flood would (IMO) not be worth it.
DSB in a bucket for nitrate control
- Thread starter Hobster
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SaltwaterDaddy
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I agree with barryhc. It all has to do with the word "sealed". Due to physics, there is no head pressure because the water going back pulls the water going up. The pump just gets it moving ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ which leads me to one of Albert Einsteinââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s theories ... things in motion tend to stay in motion. It's way over simplified, but I think you get the idea.
I will hopefully let you know the magic answer tomorrow. I set mine up today. Got 2 bulkhead connectors and a ball valve for the pump/inlet side+ four stepdown fittings. I took an oceanic large pail and put the one bkhd connector about 4-5" from the top and put the return through the niddle of the top. These buckets are sealed pretty tightly and the bkhd connector seals with a large sponge washer. I put approx 60-70lbs of playsand from lowes. I plan on havving the return drip above the waterline in the tank. I am laso going to coil a hose part way around the bucket so the water will circulate. Hope it works. Let you know if it leaks. If you heard a Pa man drowned in his fish water you know I had problems. Will try to check in tomorrow. Need a couple final things. I think I will add tank water up to the fitting to give the sand time to settle
laszlo
New member
Wow barryhc is right! The more I thought about it the more it makes perfect sense. Kinda like a U-tube I guess could be a way to think about it. If the RDSB system is completely sealed, and primed right, then yea it should work, and barry's theory would be right. The question then is, "what about a power outtage?" Would the maxijet be able to pump the water up to get the RDSB going again?
Capt.Chaos
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let me get this strait if place a five gallon instent ocean bucket in my sump and fill it full of home depot silica play sand and cross the top of the sand only with a slow flow my nitrate problems will end in about two months
In a properly sealed system, the siphon will not "break" during a power outage. It will just start back up by itself. You might want to put a fill cap in the lid of your bucket, for initial "priming" .
Some might think that then the water would not have any oxygen, but the oxygen comes in with the water continuously.
> Barry
Some might think that then the water would not have any oxygen, but the oxygen comes in with the water continuously.
> Barry
SaltwaterDaddy
New member
Thanks. I mention Enstein because Einstein's Theory of Relativity supercedes Newton's. You are correct, Newton was first, but there was a slight problem with Newton's theory that Enstein corrected. Enstein's theory works on any particle travel at any speed.
So anyway ... let's say we are both correct. Now let's get back to something fishy ;-)
Ok. First of all, it does leak especially as the air pressure is being purged. But not alot. Actually after the pressure released and I was getting flow it seemed to stop. I think so therefore I believe that I am. I, also, think that aquarium sealant will take care of this.That is my next step. It does pump back out of the bucket after the air is purged. I actually decided to put this on the outlet side of my UV bulb and it did work. So I put aquarium sealer under the lid gasket, put the gasket on and then a generous layer on top of the gasket. I am truly hoping this cures the leak because this works. If you are going to try this seal the lid. Will give you a status report when I run it tomorrow. Len
I'm late to chime in but there will be some headloss for the MJ to push the water through the tubing-- larger diameter piping or tubing makes it smaller...
I don't think the MJ is the problem--
For a Bucket under a tank-- here is how I think it will work out--- I was on a submarine in the navy so I liked to know how much pressure was on our hull.... for every 100 feet of depth--- salt water applies 40 PSI.... their will be a column of water in the supply and return line to the bucket-- the column of water (regardless of its size will exert a force on the water in the bucket)
So say for 5 feet you will get 2 psi... now realise this is pounds per square inch...
On a 1 foot across bucket lid--- A=pi x R^2
so 6 inch radius,
3.14 x 6^2 = 3.14 x 36 = 113 square inches area...
So 2 pounds per sqare inch will put 226 pounds of force on the lid of a bucket.... which is quite a bit.. The problem is the large surface area of a bucket lid..... I work on hydraulic systems-- larger pistons can deliver alot more force then smaller ones...
I'm reasonably certain my math is correct-- you can greatly reduce the force on the lid by using a container with a much smaller lid...
a 4 inch diameter lid will only have about 14 pounds of force on it...
Its much easier to put this above tank if you have to... but if you can get a container with a small lid (I'd do that instead)-- there was a pic back a few pages of one....
I don't think the MJ is the problem--
For a Bucket under a tank-- here is how I think it will work out--- I was on a submarine in the navy so I liked to know how much pressure was on our hull.... for every 100 feet of depth--- salt water applies 40 PSI.... their will be a column of water in the supply and return line to the bucket-- the column of water (regardless of its size will exert a force on the water in the bucket)
So say for 5 feet you will get 2 psi... now realise this is pounds per square inch...
On a 1 foot across bucket lid--- A=pi x R^2
so 6 inch radius,
3.14 x 6^2 = 3.14 x 36 = 113 square inches area...
So 2 pounds per sqare inch will put 226 pounds of force on the lid of a bucket.... which is quite a bit.. The problem is the large surface area of a bucket lid..... I work on hydraulic systems-- larger pistons can deliver alot more force then smaller ones...
I'm reasonably certain my math is correct-- you can greatly reduce the force on the lid by using a container with a much smaller lid...
a 4 inch diameter lid will only have about 14 pounds of force on it...
Its much easier to put this above tank if you have to... but if you can get a container with a small lid (I'd do that instead)-- there was a pic back a few pages of one....
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The math is correct, the height is likely closer to 3 1/2 feet. So 70% of 226 = 158 lbs. This still "seems" like a considerable amount of pressure. Not really though, for such a large lid, and seal.
NOT ALL BUCKETS ARE EQUAL ! :lol: :lol:
If you have ever removed the lid from a standard commercial bucket then you know it takes very nearly, an " Act Of God" to get it off.
Most buckets that are intended for quick "consumer access" are designed differently. It will depend on the bucket.
If you find a commercial bucket, from an appropriate original use, and seal the "pour hole" with a bulkhead, or something similar, then even 30 psi would not cause a leak. The capped bulkhead could be used for your "initial priming" if need be.
The lids however, as stated, are very difficult to remove, so the point here is to check out several different buckets before you start, with the "sealing issue" in mind.
The first reefer to find the "optimum" DIY RDSB bucket, gets one ice cream cone !
:thumbsup:
NOT ALL BUCKETS ARE EQUAL ! :lol: :lol:
If you have ever removed the lid from a standard commercial bucket then you know it takes very nearly, an " Act Of God" to get it off.
Most buckets that are intended for quick "consumer access" are designed differently. It will depend on the bucket.
If you find a commercial bucket, from an appropriate original use, and seal the "pour hole" with a bulkhead, or something similar, then even 30 psi would not cause a leak. The capped bulkhead could be used for your "initial priming" if need be.
The lids however, as stated, are very difficult to remove, so the point here is to check out several different buckets before you start, with the "sealing issue" in mind.
The first reefer to find the "optimum" DIY RDSB bucket, gets one ice cream cone !
:thumbsup:
threeheaddog
New member
yep
yep
that does make sense
yep
that does make sense
Ok......I have just found an un wanted hitchhiker a crab who I previously thought to be harmless! He is a white hairy thing, no bigger than a twenty cent piece.......but I just found him no top of one of my snails. So that solves the snail problem....well not really, when I catch him that is. How do you catch crabs? They are fast! Can I use the soda bottle technique?
And hopefully the clicking is only......some supposedly harmless Pistols.
And hopefully the clicking is only......some supposedly harmless Pistols.
OK, I just finished reading the whole thread and I have a question. I see how the higher flow will keep detritus from "contaminating" the DSB, and without light there won't be a problem with nuisance algae, so the DSBB should be maintenance free for the most part. other than that, though, would everyone agree that this DSBB idea is just a regular old DSB, only on a much larger scale? if not, what are the other differences? I just want to make sure I understand correctly. Thanks.
Fred_J
New member
Skepperz- That is a gorilla crab. The meanest thing there is except perhaps a mantis. I had one in my 75g that I just caught this week. He went too far, started eating my coral and my firefish was missing. Tke regular tall drinking glass place large piece of grocery store shrimp in it(can use silver sides but shrimp has worked a lot better for me) leab glass up on LR at a 45 degree angle leave overnight you will have at least one crab by morning. side of glass is too slippert for them to climb out. It could take two nights. I've caught 3 gorillas ad unnowquantity of red mithrex this way.
Fred
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