DSB problems--HELP!!

L

labragg1

New member
Ok--so I'm getting really frustrated and don't know what to try next.

I have a 220gal RR acrylic tank with a 75gal sump. I just recently partitioned off about 3/4's of the sump and added a DSB and chaeto. The main tank has been running about 5 months now.

I only have about 1-2 inches of sand in the main display tank mainly just for looks--or so I thought. :mad2:

My problem is that my sandbed in the display looks like pooh!!!

I have a Sequence Hammerhead with 8 returns in the bottom of the tank--so when it's all said and done i have roughly 4500gph going through the tank--plenty of flow. It's also on an OM-4 way. I have to fire the returns up a little as if I aim them too low it blows the sand everywhere.

I keep getting these thin layers of brown algae and sometimes patches of cyano on the sand. My rockwork looks great and stays pretty clean because of the flow. I have two large sand gobies--but they kind of stay in there areas--which are very nice and white--but never really work on the bad areas.

Since I added the chaeto to the sump it seems to be getting better--but i'm just really frustrated with the sand looking so crappy.

I also have a sand sifting star and about 20 nassareous snails--I know--i need more--but they seem to spend more time on the rockwork and glass then in the sand.

I also have to throttle my CL pump back a little as it will blow the sand around--which aggravates me.

Any suggestions that may help????
I know patience is key--but after battling for around 5 months, I'm getting really sick of it.

Note: all my corals are doing great and growing like crazy. My levels are all descent although my nitrates seem a little high--but I'm working on that one--it may just be my test kit.

Anyway--any help would be appreciated!!!!!

I've even thought about going BB in the display, but i don't know how much of a pain it would be to remove 1-2 inches of sand?
 
Get MORE SNAILS! Also, ur star should be helping. The brown you see is likely diatoms or detritus... not sure without more details. Either way... look how is ur water quality?

Other critters to consider: Brittle star, sea cucumbers (careful.. do researchy before you buy), sand gobie, etc. Has your sand shifting star helped any? I have 2 brittle stars and one sand shifting star on my 125, and they keep my sand looking GREAT. I also have an army of hermits and margarita snails... BTW you didnt mention if you have any turbo snails... ?

If you have high nitrates or phospates, then you may be dealing with diatoms. If this is the case, do some large water changes (maybe 30-40 gals at a time) until you get them down. Then just keep up with changes. High nitrates are easy to deal with. Nitrates reside in the water column. Just do large water changes till they are down, then do regular water changes often. Hope this helps... I had a diatom problem when I upgraded to metal halides... and this helped me. :)
 
antjefferson--thanks for the response.
I have two sand gobies that do a great job--but they mainly stay in their little territories and don't venture out much to take care of the rest of the sand bed.

The sand sifting star helps--but seemingly not near enough. Should I have several of them for the size of tank I have? i was just afraid if I had several that they would starve? Maybe I'm wrong?

Note: My tank is 60x36--so I have quite a bit of surface area.

My levels have been descent. PH is a little on the low side--nitrates a little high--I've been trying to do 30gal water changes weekly to get this down.
Also my phosphate levels are undetectable.
I use Ro/Di and it tested at 5ppm the other day--is that still ok?
Maybe I need to change cartridges again?

I've also been trying to back off of feeding--but that's hard when you're trying to fatten up a few fish that were starved by the LFS!

I'm getting ready to put in an order for more snails, etc.

Currently I've got about 50 or so snails.
--20 nassareous
--20 or so astrea
--10 corinth (large)
I also only have about 10 red-leg hermits

I have kept the number of hermits low because in my last tank the hermits seemed to kill off most of my snails. It may have been the blue-leg hermits-though--which I have stayed away from in this tank.

Should I add more hermits--or just stick with snails?

I also forgot to mention I have 2 cleaner shrimp, 2 camel back shrimp, 2 peppermint shrimp, and 1 fire shrimp.
They do a pretty good job of eating leftovers as well.
Not sure if that makes a difference?

I have a Kent Phos Reactor coming in today or tomorrow--I plan to run carbon in it and see if that will help bring down the nitrates.

My water stays pretty clear as I use filter socks changed weekly--man do they filter out the junk!!!

I also have a Octupus NW-200 that really pulls out a lot of crap--I empty weekly.

I have a 36w UV that I run 24/7--but I'm thinking about pulling it because I can't see that it is helping any. I have lost a few fish to ick and the UV doesn't seem to be making a difference.
Not sure if anyone wants to comment here?

Last weekend I got a 20gal quarantine tank set up so hopefully I can rid myself of the ick problem that way.

I have been using Oceanic salt for the last year or two and it seems to do fine.

Sorry for rambling--just trying to give as many details as I can think of. Thanks
 
You're getting cyano because you dont have enough flow, so crap is settling on your sand.

4500gph in a 220 is not a lot of flow.


Add another 5-10K gph of flow.
 
algea blooms are part of a normal cycle getting your SB established with the proper amount of bacteria. you can start out with brown diatoms, then a little cyano and maybe even a little HA with perfect water.

i just added 4-6" of new sand in a 10y old tank and its over 3 weeks old and now i have some cyano on the bottom. its normal and im just waiting it out. 6 months for you seems like a long time i know but it should pass. [i have a fuge, phos reactor my water is perfect in all aspects and im going with the patients method]


i'd clean up your water, add your phos reactor and keep an eye on it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8082823#post8082823 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
You're getting cyano because you dont have enough flow, so crap is settling on your sand.

4500gph in a 220 is not a lot of flow.


Add another 5-10K gph of flow.
Click to expand...
Dude... 4500 is plenty of flow for your tank. You dont need any more than 20x your tank volume. 10 times is the minimum or average.... you are over that. Flow is NOT your problem.

As far as the star is concerned... I wouldnt keep more than 2 of the sand shifters. They are voracious... and apart from sifting the sand they also do a good job of killing off ur pods and other fauna in ur sandbed. Besides, there are a lot of options. NAS-snails are great, as are some cucumbers. I am not sure if you have cyano or diatoms...but with that much flow... I also agree that is is likely cyano. just keep up water quality. When you do water changes, siphon the top inch of sand. I think you could also have more snails.... maybe another star. OTher than that, its just gonna take time. Good luck!
 
antjefferson. I'm going to disagree. 10x was the average 15 years ago.


At this point, I wouldnt reccomend anyone keep a reef with less than 30.


Flow keeps detritus in suspension. Detritus in suspension gets skimmed out. Tank stays clean.


Flow is THE MOST important thing in a reef tank, IMO.
 
Thanks guys. I don't think I can get too much more flow as this is a mixed reef and I don't think the softies would care for it too much. :)
With the Hammerhead and the OM--the system definitely has some serious movement.
In fact--it's so strong that if I get it too close to the sand it blows it everywhere--that's my problem. I'm still fine tuning it--but I'm getting tired of sand storms!!

Since I only have 1-2 inches of sand--I know it doesn't really serve any biological purpose other than looks and to house sand critters. That was my main reason for installing a DSB in my sump last week--so I could have around 4" that would be undisturbed.
Maybe I just need to give it time to kick in gear.

Anyway--I was debating BB in the display--but I hate the looks and love having all the sand critters!!!
I guess there's pros and cons to both. :(

I guess for now I'll just keep adding more clean up crew and just give it time.

Any thoughts on whether I should do more crabs, or just stick to mostly snails?
 
labragg. I've got 6000+ gph in my 58. My leather does fine. It likes the flow. I wouldnt worry about softies not liking flow.


Make yourself a pair of maximods (1200s with Dumas props). Bounce up to like 10K gph, and I GUARANTEE the cyano will go away.
 
RichConley--dang--that's a lot of flow :) My fish already get blown all over the place. :) :) The OM does a great job of breaking up the flow and giving some very random wave action.

My problem is my display is completely equipment free--very clean looking. If I do the maxi-mods then that kind of ruins that scenario.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8083036#post8083036 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
labragg. I've got 6000+ gph in my 58. My leather does fine. It likes the flow. I wouldnt worry about softies not liking flow.


Make yourself a pair of maximods (1200s with Dumas props). Bounce up to like 10K gph, and I GUARANTEE the cyano will go away.
Click to expand...

labragg... there are a MILLION reefers that just have 8 to 20 times per gallon flow rate and are not having a problem with cyano. 6000gph on a 58g is over 100x per hour! Granted, flow is very important. I wont even say that 100gph is too much flow.... because I cant be sure whether it is or isnt. I know for a fact, though, that flow is NOT YOUR PROBLEM!
 
My sandbed in the display is a mixture of some southdown and aragonite.
Granule size varies from the sugar-size of the southdown to some of the larger special reef-grade aragonite.
The sump is all aragonite--mostly sugar size with no southdown.
 
this is from the home page

After the initial nitrogen cycle, there will be multiple algae growth phases. Once you get beyond this, you should be able to safely introduce your first coral. This timetable usually falls between the first six to twelve months.

no use overloading your cleaning crew for something that will pass on its own. not only that rite now its going to grow so fast most cleaning crews cant keep up.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8083203#post8083203 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by antjefferson
Hey.... btw... what kind of substrate are you using?
Click to expand...

SAnd.


Cyano forms when you have localized high phospates. You have localized high phosphates when things are sitting and rotting in an area. Thigns sit and rot in an area when theres not enough flow in that area.

If hes got cyano, that area is not getting enough flow. Plain and simple.
 
I have 40x flow in my 120 and I'm going through the same problem. The problem that I am having is that with sugar-sized aragonite, the sand bed blows all over the place with even the smallest amount of current directed toward it. So my flow is limited to the upper half of the tank and detritus accumulates on the bottom.
 
well.. your sand isnt exactly a phosphate factory..... I could see if you were using crushed coral.... but you should be fine. I would agree with Holmie-D-Clown (classic name, btw!) and say just wait it out. Whatever the cyano is feeding on will be consumed eventually as your tank matures and as you keep up with your water changes.

[ sarcastic remark ] Or... maybe you should just add another 500,000gph of flow. That will solve the problem. There wont be any sand on the tanks bottom for cyano to accumulate on... it will all be in the water column. Problem solved! [/ sarcastic comment]

Good luck.
 
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