DSB problems--HELP!!

[JeffersonReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8083405#post8083405 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Holmie_D_Klown
I have 40x flow in my 120 and I'm going through the same problem. The problem that I am having is that with sugar-sized aragonite, the sand bed blows all over the place with even the smallest amount of current directed toward it. So my flow is limited to the upper half of the tank and detritus accumulates on the bottom.

Hey Holmie... you could use some of the kent marine biosediment. add as a top-layer over your regular sand. Apart from the great elements it will add to ur system... it is also very dense, and less likely to blow around. It is very dense, and thusly enables denitrification in depths as shallow as 2"... check it out. Otherwise, maybe mix a larger grain sand with ur sugarsized... may help. I have a mixed substrate, and I dont have any problems with sand blowing around.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8083405#post8083405 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Holmie_D_Klown
I have 40x flow in my 120 and I'm going through the same problem. The problem that I am having is that with sugar-sized aragonite, the sand bed blows all over the place with even the smallest amount of current directed toward it. So my flow is limited to the upper half of the tank and detritus accumulates on the bottom.

Homie, how long has the tank been up? Sand should get some bacterial life, and this will be less of an issue.


Try putting your powerheads down lower, with them blowing in an upward direction. (diagnal up towards the front) and it should help a lot.

 

[Holmie_D_Klown]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8083514#post8083514 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Homie, how long has the tank been up? Sand should get some bacterial life, and this will be less of an issue.


Try putting your powerheads down lower, with them blowing in an upward direction. (diagnal up towards the front) and it should help a lot.

I will try that, thanks. I moved my tank to my office 3 months ago and decided to make it into a DSB.

 

[Holmie_D_Klown]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8083492#post8083492 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by antjefferson
Hey Holmie... you could use some of the kent marine biosediment. add as a top-layer over your regular sand. Apart from the great elements it will add to ur system... it is also very dense, and less likely to blow around. It is very dense, and thusly enables denitrification in depths as shallow as 2"... check it out. Otherwise, maybe mix a larger grain sand with ur sugarsized... may help. I have a mixed substrate, and I dont have any problems with sand blowing around.

I've never heard of marine biosediment before, it sounds intriguing. I will have to go to my LFS and pick some up and give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[outy]

rich theres more to cyano then phosphates and flow. its one of the oldest bacterias known on our planet and very missunderstood.

the problem i and labragg1 are having is that there is not enough benificial bacteria growth on our sand. in the absence of bacteria the first thing that can grow will this is usually a diatom bloom that triggers the rest of the algea blooms. its really very simple.

there is no cure all for cyano never has been because so little is known about it. all we can do is keep our water the best we can and even then it happens. its silly to think that just flow and phosphate removal is a cure all

 

[RichConley]

Cyano is pretty simple. Cut phosphate, and it goes away. Its that easy.

You can't kill it by limiting nitrate (it can atmospherically fixate nitrogen) you much do it with phosphte.


Like I said, if you have cyano, you have high localized phosphate. Theres a phosphate source in that area. Its either something settling, something dying, something leaching phosphates, or your water is just high in it.

Outy, most of the oldest things on are planet are the simplest, not the most complex.

 

[labragg1]

I may take a look at the biosediment as well.

My sandbed in the display is mainly just for looks--my DSB in the sump will do most of the filtration.

I just want the sandbed to look like a real one--not a pooh pile!

I guess I'll just keep working at it and give it some more time.

By the way--my phosphates were zero as of last week. I'll check them again tonight to see if they've changed.
I really don't think it's a phosphate problem--but I guess anything's possible.

 

[RichConley]

labragg, siphon off some water from in/under the cyano, and test it for phosphates. If its zero, toss the test kit and go out and buy a better one.

 

[Holmie_D_Klown]

Ya, my phosphates have always measured 0, through 2 different salifert kits. My source, I believe, is coming from the DT phytoplankton that I am now dosing every 1-2 days vs once a week previously. I increased the frequency because I am trying to liven-up my sandbed.

 

[labragg1]

Could filter socks be a problem? I use 100micron filter socks on both of my drains and change them out weekly.
They really keep the water clear and I was thinking it would be just that much less detritious that my DSB would have to deal with.
Am I wrong?

 

[Holmie_D_Klown]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8083883#post8083883 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by labragg1
Could filter socks be a problem? I use 100micron filter socks on both of my drains and change them out weekly.
They really keep the water clear and I was thinking it would be just that much less detritious that my DSB would have to deal with.
Am I wrong?

Weekly should be fine by most standards. What are you feeding your tank. I know a lot of juice from frozen foods can be loaded with phosphates. So can some activated carbon.

During an active algae "attack" the algae can be using the phosphate source as quickly as you introduce it, and therefore give you a 0 reading on your testing for it.

I like RichConley's idea about siphoning sand under the cyano and testing phosphates. I will try that on my tank

 

[labragg1]

I feed a little bit of everything--mostly frozen mysis, plankton, emeral entree, brine shrimp, silversides once in awhile for the anemones. I also keep a seaweed clip out for the tangs--but they wipe it out daily.

I'll try Rich's idea too about siphoning under the cyano for the phosphate test.

My PhosBan reactor should be in tomorrow--so hopefully once it's up and running that will help.

I did test again tonight and realized that I did the nitrate test wrong last time. This time I did it right the the nitrates testes out to zero--so that's encouraging.

My KH is the only thing that seems to be lower than what should be normal. It tested at 6dkh (107.4ppm KH)
Any ideas on this? Will this cause bad problems? Is there an easy way to get it on track?

Everything else seems to check ok.
THanks

 

[yeame]

I have diatoms in my 20g Long with about 850 gph of water flow I blame my lights on to long (bad habbit )
BTW without phosphates algea cant grow with no algea nothing can live at all phosphates out of control is bad,and phosphate readings and nitrate readings together is bad like I said I blame the lights being on to long

 

[Holmie_D_Klown]

[i
My KH is the only thing that seems to be lower than what should be normal. It tested at 6dkh (107.4ppm KH)
Any ideas on this? Will this cause bad problems? Is there an easy way to get it on track?
[/B]

If your Cacium is OK then just add a little baking soda

 

[labragg1]

My calcium levels were a little on the low side that last time I checked. I think in the 300 range. I know 400-500 is preferred.
I have some Aragamilk that I could start adding daily--but I have been afraid to use it as I was thinking it might just boost the growth of the algae--am I wrong?
I think it has some buffering capacity as well.
Anybody used it before? Would it help?

 

[Holmie_D_Klown]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8087792#post8087792 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by labragg1
My calcium levels were a little on the low side that last time I checked. I think in the 300 range. I know 400-500 is preferred.
I have some Aragamilk that I could start adding daily--but I have been afraid to use it as I was thinking it might just boost the growth of the algae--am I wrong?
I think it has some buffering capacity as well.
Anybody used it before? Would it help?

Yes, that looks like a calcium carbonate compound which is exactly what you need. I would dose the 2 drops/gal as recommended on the bottle until your calcium and alkalinity are within range. You really don't have to worry about overdosing with this. I would caution that if your pH is on the low side (e.g. 7.9-8.0), the addition of this product may cause the pH to shift higher too quickly so I would maybe go with half the suggested dosage. If your pH is already at the 8.1+ range, then you'll have no problem with the full dosage. Maybe that's overly cautious but I tend to get that way with my tank.

 

[labragg1]

Should I dose this daily or weekly?
I've always had ph a little on the low side. The typical ph buffers never seemed to work--so hopefully dosing this Aragamilk will resolve this.

I'll have to test the ph levels again to see where they're at.

 

[Holmie_D_Klown]

I would dose daily and check calcium and alkalinity every 2-3 days.

Ya, once your alkalinity falls below 7dkH, your pH starts to slide lower. I like to keep mine in the 10-12 range just to make sure the pH stays stable. Its always 8.2 the last 20+ times I checked it. I rarely even check it anymore.

 

[labragg1]

Thanks Holmie_D_Klown--great info.

Another question--would dosing Kalk or Limewater be a more stable--long term solution?

I've seen people that seem to be really successful with a cheap doser such as the Kent Aquadoser and some pickling lime or kalk.
I've seen the Kent Aquadosers for only around $20, so it doesn't seem very expensive to implement.
Any pros or cons?

I just don't want to do anything to make things worse!

 

[buzzee]

Hey Labragg.....

If the cyano has started just since adding the DSB, then that would have triggered the start of it. Otherwise if you already had it I would be surprised unless your tank is under a year old.

Cyano can sometimes just be a part of cycling process, (Even up to a year) and will go away with good parameters.

The best way to speed up this process is to build up the bacteria populations to a higher level than needed.

If you add 2ml of vodka per 100 litres of aquarium water on day one followed by 1 ml of vodka ALL other following days for the next three months your cyano WILL dissapear. Slow down on the feeding a touch too to assist also. Spread the above dose over the day by adding half in the morning and half at night.

I run a 375 gallon system and I run 1ml vodka every day PERMANENTLY.

The best vodka is something liken SMIRNOF Triple distilled (PURITY).

I almost guarantee success with this.

Here is a link to our NZ site and my tank build.

Others on our NZ site can vouch for my Vodka additions.

Your Calcium, Mg and KH should be at stable and accurate levels also)

Good luck.

Heres the LINK...

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/crackers-upgrade-vt8785.html