DSB vs Skimmers

jtinoco

New member
I've been reading into DSB's for a while and debating whether to turn mine into one or not. I thought i would start a thread on it since Erik asked about adding one onto a fuge.

I came across this site where the question is debated. Do I REALLY need a skimmer?

http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Protein_Skimmers_Do_You_Really_Need_One.htm

It's interesting to note the arguments and I have to say they make some sense.

Here is another article I read. Interesting.

http://www.reef-eden.net/DSBs.htm


What are your thoughts on DSB and skimmers? Or do we need both?


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I too have read this and is hotly debated, well the skimmer that is. I think DSB's in the long run are beneficial to a tank. Think of how deep the sand bed is in a reef and that should tell you everything. They harbor a ton of the life that a skimmer pulls out that essentially is food in the for the chain. Have you seen a skimmer in the ocean?

I had a DSB in my system and it did great. Many have the same results as I did, where the DSB starts taking over as the main denitrification processor. One of the issues with a DSB over the course of a couple to few years is that it will stop denitrifying. There are more organic and inorganic compounds on the sand that it cannot break them down fast enough. The other issue is that the sand cannot be disturbed--vacuumed having sand sifters of any kind.

The issue that I have with skimmers is the amount of food that it takes out of the system. That gunk that we all see pulled out by the skimmer is food for many corals and photosynthetic corals/inverts. Many won't argue with this. But they will argue that this gunk the skimmer is pulling out is essentially the root cause for algal and diatom blooms. Fair enough. I have never personally been in an oceans reef, but there is a ton of algae and cyano on the reef floor from the pictures that I have seen. So, we "are trained to freak out" when we see algae or cyano on our systems. So what do we do? We buy skimmers, reactors, chemicals, etc to combat it. Even though it is a natural part of the ecosystem in reefs--it too is a food source and many algae's absorb nutrients.

The other major problem is that in order to have a good skimmer, you are also paying top dollar for one. Even used skimmers fetch a pretty penny. Like my skimmer, eventually, it will stop pulling gunk out. For the first year+ my skimmer pulled a ton of cr@p out. No joke! But eventually, the system got so dialed in that the skimmer stopped pulling out gunk. So I was always adjusting it. I have also read many threads where other hobbiest skimmers stopped pulling out organics regardless of the amount of tweaking they did to it. So the skimmer becomes useless and very expensive piece of equipment that eventually will stop pulling out organics (skimmers don't pull out inorganic compounds).

So, my advice is definitely use a DSB. I think they are worth the investment. Skimmers on the other hand I don't understand why they are needed when many systems have been around for decades without one and are thriving. Maybe its a marketing ploy, who knows. But many swear by it however, the only argument they can make is they pull out organics so the system can stay "clean". If you do get a skimmer, spare no expense in getting a good one. At least if it does stop pulling out cr@p, at least you can resell it and get some of your money back.

I personally am going to go the DSB again on my next system. The only difference is that I am going skimmerless. I am going as natural as possible without using to many amps (watts); I am going the ATS route with a bunch of macroalgeas, bunch of CUC, and plants to pull our additional in/organics in the sump. An ATS also acts as natural chiller as well so they can keep the water relatively cool. And I am going to need it in Hades (Phoenix). I hope this helps Jesus!
 
I think dsb would be a bad idea with out a skimmer. A better idea would be more Live rock and a regular bed. The idea of having stuff trap with no water movement would worry me. Moving a rock in a DSB would release huge amount of crap in the water. Could start some sort of cycle in the tank.

The only way I could see this working would be if you did bed cleaning.
This is something i do in my Fresh water tanks when i do water changes and never do in a reef.

If you don't want to run a skimmer. I would just go with more Live rock. and make that your filter . You could save money by not having to go all out on the live stock to keep bed clean.
 
It is my understanding that the DSB will harvest lots of anaerobic bacteria because of it being deep and hence consume nitrates. The trick is to use a certain size of grain. Not too small but not too big. This will help improve the flow of water in the sand and consume nitrates.

The first article even mentions that some people experienced their skimmer skimming less as Hans said. This may be attributed to the DSB breaking down organics faster and consuming the nitrates.

I don't like the aesthetics of a DSB on a DT. I may add one to my fuge. I just need to make sure I have enough room.


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