Dwarf Seahorses for a beginner

L

loyalhero90

New member
Okay, I really would not like to have criticism for being a beginner marine aquarist and please hear me out before you start to judge.

Even with the high volumes of contradiction that I have recieved from many books and previous professional aquarist I have thoroughly researched and compiled an aquarium pertaining the basic needs of the beautiful dwarf seahorse but since I have never kept them before I would like some feedback for the idea.

Aquarium:
I know that dwarf seahorses need at least a 5 gallon aquarium. Due to my small dorm room and other factors I decided on getting the 9 gallon biube pure (gutted with the right equipment of course). I believe that due to the circular motion of the tank it would be eaiser for flow and filter mechanisms. Other aquariums are either hexagonal and glass or simply too small (I know that dwarfs can take a small tank but I was also thinking of adding coral). With circular motion the water would go all around instead of hitting one spot and glass is too heavy and breakable vs. acrylic.

Filter:
Of course I would take out the biube's filter. I would add a power filter with sponge attachment along with a very small internal filter. The power/sponge filter would be the main filter while the smaller one would be place closer to the top (horizontally) of the tank to help with feeding the coral (circular motion would help with the dispersion of food I think) or down at the bottom ( i have not decided yet). Also with adding coral and tank mates another filter would seem to be needed. Both filters are small and have flow meters. Also although the dwarfs do not need a lot of waves they are not in a stand still environment and also the food has to get around since they will mostly hitchhike and wait for food.

Subtrate:
CURED live rock and CURED live(black) sand would be added.

Plants:
Red and Green macroalgae. Not too many(1-2 max) but enough to give the dwarfs ample hitching posts along with good hidings places.

Coral:
After a grueling research I have decided on soft corals and polyps. I would have either a colt coral or taro tree coral along with (non-stinging) glove polyps (1-2 kinds because I read they grow like weeds). Also one gorgonian.

Inverts:
Shrimp, feather dusters and snails will be my main tank mates. I will get 2 sexy shrimp, about 3 dwarf feather dusters and 2 snails max. Maybe one starfish. Since I will have sand it would just seem imperative that I would have something to stir the sand and help filter out debris.

Fish:
I have not decided on fish but if I was going to get one it would be a green mandarin.

Food:
Copepods. I know the census is for brine shrimp but copepods can actually live in the aquarium without a smelly hatchery and they are the natural food for most seahorses. I would have a colony of copepods and other pods so the dwarfs would have any endless food supply and not have to wait on me to feed them.

Time:
I would do things slowly. Cycle the tank with live sand/rock and add the macroalgae, then copepods, then coral, inverts, fish(?) and then add the dwarfs.

Lighting:
I have no idea. The biube lighting seems okay but then again I have no idea what coral information text mean by 'moderate' lighting. But with the macroalgae and towering live rock I would hope that the dwarfs would not get too hot. The coral would be on a part of the rock that recieve the most light and I have even thought of investing in a submersible light that would directly hit the top part of the tank with the coral and such. Also some corals prefer less lighting. The corals that I have chosen are pretty hardy and prefer less lighting. The macroalgae not so much but they grow pretty tall. The lighting I guess is what I have the most problem with. The biube lighting also has a 24 hour illuminator that goes through all the phases of the day attached to it which is awesome. It is very hard to find those for such small aquariums. The biube lighting puts out 6500k and is a 12 volt. I have no idea what that means and if it is ideal for the aquarium.

With all this being said please give me feedback. I want to hear from you guys I just don't want to get slammed because I am a beginner. I want to know if the tank that I plan to get is a good tank or should I go with a 6g hexagonal. Are those the best corals to pick? Exactly what type of lighting would be best? Are the type of inverts that I pick okay? Does the filteration system make sense?

I am not trying this out for the plain fun of it. I really want my seahorses to have a very natural, safe aquarium which is why I want to add the inverts and coral. The only thing I want to do is change the filter and do the the 10-30% water changes. Not becuase I am lazy but becuase I want them to have the most human free environment possible.

P.S. I would get captive bred dwarf seahorses and I would start out with two. Also I have no idea where to find a cylinder aquarium that is cheaper than the biube.

I hope I don't sound rude I am simply tired of the whole 'dwarfs are for experts/ no they can be for beginners', 'dwarfs only eat brine shrimp/no they eat other shrimp' and so on and so forth with all of the contradictory arguing.

Thanks
 
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Hmmmm!
You ask for feedback and then at the end to me it appears you don't want anyone to tell you any of the basics in case you get conflicting information.
I doubt in this forum you will get slammed for being a beginner, but if you ask for information you will get a variety of information based on peoples experiences usually.
There are certain facts that can't be avoided and with dwarfs it is the fact they need live food and cannot be sustained long term on prepared or frozen foods.
I suspect you also don't want to be told that you can't keep a mandarin in that 9g tank either but it will definitely die.
I won't comment on filter as I use only live rock myself, and, I don't use sand bed so I can't comment there.
On the live rock, my personal preference whenever I set up ANY seahorse tank I boil the rock first to eliminate nasties and then cycle with ammonia.
I won't comment on macro, corals or inverts as I prefer species only tanks myself. For lighting I use only ambient lighting as again, I don't have corals in seahorse tanks.
Copepods are EXCELLENT foods for dwarfs. However, I have yet to find anyone on any board anywhere who successfully kept enough copepods in the tank to satisfy the needs of the dwarfs.
Some raise them in remote set ups and transfer to the display tank as needed, but usually only do so in addition to bbs feeding.
Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com, breeder of several species of seahorses including dwarfs, says that they stand a better chance of survival past the 3 month stage when fed bbs that are grown out to the instar II stage and gut loaded for two 12 hour session on a suitable enrichment, with new water and new enrichment for the second stage.
I too hope that I don't sound rude but that's the best I can do keeping in mind your requests.
I'm sure others can advise you on the other matters that I'm unable to give feedback on.
 
Thanks rayjay,
the feedback was helpful. Please give your opinion but I have seen really ugly comment before on forums with something as simple as the size of a tank to house the dwarfs. I do want feedback but I guess I re-edit it to say constructive criticism. It was just very annoying for me to try to pick out the right equipment for my dwarf aquarium with opinions from people who sometimes have never even had seahorses themselves to begin with (some had confessed with problem). But I understand that each person has their own experience with the dwarfs. But I guess in the end I will just have to make my own judgement such as you said that you do not know anyone who has successfully kept enough copepods for seahorses but I know a person who has kept dwarfs before who has been able to keep enough. So I guess it is mostly a trial and error type thing. There no perfectly right way to do this except to try. But please give your giveback but just in constructive criticism format not angry mob flaming format. And again please provide your feedback:)

If you don't have coral then do you have artificial plants or just macroalgae for the dwarfs to hitch?

Also yeah I know that mandarins need at lest 30 gallon aquariums mostly becuase they eat so much but then again I have heard people successfully keep them in 10 gallon aquariums. So that is why I was skeptical about keeping them; I was not totally sure about adding fish but again it is a trial and error process.
 
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I switched from fresh to salt back in Jan 94 and rapidly expanded to 10 tanks because of the addiction.
My focus however began to change in 2002 when I became an early member on seahorse.org, and started the learning process to become a seahorse keeper.
It wasn't until 2005 that I began my keeping hobby and I've had many failures in that time.
The hobby has changed much in the last five years with a lot of recommendations that were at one time assumed to be valid and now, have been altered to reflect reality of keeping them in an aquarium. I still consider the two most important things in keeping seahorses to be purchasing TRUE captive bred from sources trusted by the seahorse.org members, and, water quality.
I have put down my trials and experiences of my earlier years on my website and you can see them at MY THOUGHTS ON SEAHORSE KEEPING
I do NOT have dwarfs at the moment but have been waiting for years for them to come here with no luck.
I've arranged for a store in Canada to bring in erectus and dwarfs from Beth @ seahorsecorral.com and we're presently waiting on paperwork completion. Hopefully I'll have them in the next month or so.
I've set up a ten gallon tank ready for 12 of them.
I'll also buy 8 erectus to add to my herd I already have.
I forgot to mention in my original post that with 2 dwarfs in a 9g tank you may possibly have issues with feeding, as dwarfs many times won't search out the food but wait for it to come close enough to snick it up.
That means a heavy feeding density that can lead to water quality issues when you only have two.
I personally would have put 2 in a 2.5g tank until such time as I got more, either buy breeding or purchasing.
I use artificial hitches, and I have now placed my live rock in sumps for my regular sized seahorses and am contemplating doing the same for the dwarf set up but I'll have to build an overflow for it to do so.
Rock in the sump allows for easier viewing of the seahorses and I presume the same will apply with the dwarfs. It also makes husbandry a lot easier and that is a critical point with me.
As for mandarins, 130g would be an appropriate minimum IMO, if it had about 200 lbs of live rock and was fully matured.
I know of many people claiming a lot of things but never have seen proven the LONG term survival of mandarins in smaller tanks.
I couldn't even keep them alive in one of my very mature 90g tanks with more than 150 lbs of rock and no competitive fish for the natural foods.
ORA was advertising that they would have captive bred mandarins trained to eat prepared foods available later this year, but the ad has been removed now and there has been no further mention of it so I suspect they have issues that have developed.
Same with seahorses and dwarfs.
Many hobbyists trumpet their success in doing something that is beyond accepted norms, but when it eventually fails, you seldom hear from them about it.
Some have been caught in outright lies to hide the true facts.
That doesn't mean that there are not exceptions that truly exist out there, but those situations would be few, and many many seahorses die in the attempts to do so.
I'll leave a comment about my stance on corals on your newer thread.
 
I was worried about the feeding density also. I was going to have a large colony of copepods in the 9g and have the inverts (mostly sexy shrimp) to help with the feeding density along with the corals/live rock/live sand also the 2 filters might help with keeping the water quality. Also I was hoping that once the seahorses start breeding then the food population might balance itself out more. Again this is mostly in theory. Maybe I should go with the 6g hexagon aquarium to lower the density? What do you guys think?

I am definately not putting fish in the quarium now. I will try the soft coral/polyp/ macroalgae with inverts environment.

P.S. I do not have an aquarium yet but this is all for researching for when I do.
 
I am really new to seahorse keeping (only 6 months) but from all the research I have done, I didnt find dwarves to be good for me. for sure try it, but you will be much happier with a pair of larger ones. (and probably willhave more time looking at them rather than working on their tank :) )

for one, Hydroids can sting dwarves, with bigger horses you dont have to worry about it MUCH. that's just one. many other stuff as well which ray mentioned.

I keep my reidis in reef temp (80) and they are fine, although I remove all uneaten foods twice a day, and the reef system its connected to is really low in nutritions, so my SPS actually use the extra nutritions out of the seahorse tank. and I have alot of soft corals in the seahorse tank.
 
loyalhero90 said:
I was worried about the feeding density also. I was going to have a large colony of copepods in the 9g and have the inverts (mostly sexy shrimp) to help with the feeding density along with the corals/live rock/live sand also the 2 filters might help with keeping the water quality. Also I was hoping that once the seahorses start breeding then the food population might balance itself out more. Again this is mostly in theory. Maybe I should go with the 6g hexagon aquarium to lower the density? What do you guys think?

I am definately not putting fish in the quarium now. I will try the soft coral/polyp/ macroalgae with inverts environment.

P.S. I do not have an aquarium yet but this is all for researching for when I do.
Click to expand...


You need to think or do it in a factor of 10. A 9 gallon tank needs roughly 90 gallons of culture. The H. zosterae will quickly eat all the pod up within a few days.

Cure rock & sand can/will bring in hidden dangers to the tank. But if you want to use it, just feed the tank for 2 - 3 weeks and see what pops up. That way you can take care of the problem before you get the H.zosterae.

They do best as a species only tank with a CUC. The sexy shrimp & mysis will work very well in the tank.

Some people stated they kept the corals you wanted in the tank. But you no longer hear from them or they never sent in pics to prove it. They H. zosterae comes from a eelgrass/marco algae enviroment.

I have four different copepod culture inside & two outside. I an lucky to get (MAYBE) 2 -3 feedings a week from it.

The org has an entire section devoted to them.


All the best,

Tim
 
Are there any larger seahorses that you can put in a 9 or 10g aquarium because honestly I do not have that much room for anything larger which is why I was going to go with the dwarfs. However, if other seahorses can at least be comfortable in the 9g then I would try them first.

Thanks for the reef system info Allmost. I was hoping that the other sps would help with the extra nutritions that could eventually decrease water quality.

I was also worried about the Hydroid problem but proper curing could eliminate that, right? Also are there some inverts that could co-exist with the seahorses but also keep the hydroids at bay?
 
loyalhero90 said:
Are there any larger seahorses that you can put in a 9 or 10g aquarium because honestly I do not have that much room for anything larger which is why I was going to go with the dwarfs. However, if other seahorses can at least be comfortable in the 9g then I would try them first.

Thanks for the reef system info Allmost. I was hoping that the other sps would help with the extra nutritions that could eventually decrease water quality.

I was also worried about the Hydroid problem but proper curing could eliminate that, right? Also are there some inverts that could co-exist with the seahorses but also keep the hydroids at bay?
Click to expand...

http://www.ccritters.com/catalog/i60.html these guys, but I cant find any in Canada :S

I understand your concern about the room, but you can always get taller tanks :P lol in my 25G, I have 6" of DSB and 4 H reidis. I feel like I can fit more as well. it depends if you can keep the water quality high at the end. a pair of reidis would probably be fine (correct me if I'm wrong) in a 10G, considering you have sufficient filtration.
 
loyalhero90 said:
Are there any larger seahorses that you can put in a 9 or 10g aquarium because honestly I do not have that much room for anything larger which is why I was going to go with the dwarfs. However, if other seahorses can at least be comfortable in the 9g then I would try them first. The dwarfs are the only one suited for that size tank. Sorry.

Thanks for the reef system info Allmost. I was hoping that the other sps would help with the extra nutritions that could eventually decrease water quality. Reef temps are to high for them.

I was also worried about the Hydroid problem but proper curing could eliminate that, right? Also are there some inverts that could co-exist with the seahorses but also keep the hydroids at bay?
Click to expand...

The problem with hydroids is that you don't see them until it is too late. If you do find it, Panacur or boiling the rock is the only 100% cure for it.

Best to start with dry base rock & cycle it using the ammonia method.

One of my first dwarf setup was with live rocks. I had it in the tank for 12weeks. I took out two small crabs. Didn't see anything esle on the rock. So I thought everything was ok. After about a month, I started seeing hydroids. They were in the tank all along, but dorment. It wasn't until I started feeding the dwarfs that I notice the problem. My mistake was not feeding the tank before adding the dwarfs. Solution to the problem was Panacur. The results: I was limited to what I could put in as a CUC. End result: I only use dry base rock from then on.
 
loyalhero90 said:
Thanks for the help Tim. By the way how many dwarfs do you have? Even with 2 dwarfs(though they become pregnant quickly) would they eat so much so quickly? I was going to have the culture of copepods up and running before I add the sea horses. I was going to buy this:

https://livecopepods.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3

for the culture. It is supposed to have different types of copepods for the culture.
Click to expand...


I found it best to culture them apart. In a mix culture, one you end up taking over the culture.

You can read all about it here: http://forum.seahorse.org/index.php?showtopic=43014
 
Allmost said:
http://www.ccritters.com/catalog/i60.html these guys, but I cant find any in Canada :S

I understand your concern about the room, but you can always get taller tanks :P lol in my 25G, I have 6" of DSB and 4 H reidis. I feel like I can fit more as well. it depends if you can keep the water quality high at the end. a pair of reidis would probably be fine (correct me if I'm wrong) in a 10G, considering you have sufficient filtration.
Click to expand...


Minimum of 29gallon is best for a pair.

Isn't your tank hooked up to your main tank?
 
Allmost said:
I keep my reidis in reef temp (80) and they are fine, although I remove all uneaten foods twice a day, and the reef system its connected to is really low in nutritions, so my SPS actually use the extra nutritions out of the seahorse tank. and I have alot of soft corals in the seahorse tank.
Click to expand...

So reidis can stay with sps but not dwarfs becuase of heating issues?
 
timinnl said:
Minimum of 29gallon is best for a pair.

Isn't your tank hooked up to your main tank?
Click to expand...

yes it is, hence "sufficient filtration" :)

if you can keep the water clean, u wont need 29 G for each seahorse.

my other system is full of fish and SPS corals as well.

(too many ways to export nutritins though, cheato, DSB, Skimming, Zeo, Vodka and vinegear dosing )
 
Confused

Confused

timinnl said:
Minimum of 29gallon is best for a pair.

Isn't your tank hooked up to your main tank?
Click to expand...
\

My main tank will be the 9g or 6g aquarium. I won't have anything hooked up. I don't understand this comment unless you were having a conversation with Allmost. In that case please ignore this, lol!
 
loyalhero90 said:
So reidis can stay with sps but not dwarfs becuase of heating issues?
Click to expand...


NO NO !

two different tanks. SPS and seahorses are 180 degrees opposite. they just share the same water and same sump and ATO and skimmer and basically filtration.

SPS needs high flow and high lighting, something u can have in seahorse tank.
 
loyalhero90 said:
So reidis can stay with sps but not dwarfs becuase of heating issues?
Click to expand...


Best to look at the tankmate guide on the org.

I think Allmost has then in the main tank & not the reidi's tank. High temps works for very few people. More people have issuses at higher temps. But it does work for a few people.
 
loyalhero90 said:
\

My main tank will be the 9g or 6g aquarium. I won't have anything hooked up. I don't understand this comment unless you were having a conversation with Allmost. In that case please ignore this, lol!
Click to expand...

HMMM !!! 9G ? how are you going to possibly filter that ? you need a Fuge or a sump.

not possible in my opinion. a sponge filter can not keep up.
 
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