EchoTech Radion LED salt ingestion?

[rishma]

This thread makes me lol. Ecotech is a proven company. If you doubt their research and products you can buy an oddysea fixture.

I'll add to the criticism of this comment. The question asked by the OP and subsequent posters about the fan is very reasonable and is in no way denigrating Ecotech. By your comment I suspect that you are not involved in developing new products or technology, engineering equipment or designing and performing experiments. Anyone who engaged in this type of work has experienced oversights by even the very best minds. Every new product has issues and room for improvement. Confident and competent individuals and companies welcome these types of questions and challenges. Those who are emotionally attached to products (or companies) tend to be dismissive or offended.

 

[d2mini]

FWIW, it's been 4 weeks and I have no salt on the fans from what I can see.
6" above the water and a Vortech MP40w running directly underneath.
I am expecting to have to wipe down the underside periodically just like I did with previous lights.

And no... i am not going to open up my Radions.

With the electronics being separated from the cooling area, I'm not concerned.

 

[rtparty]

FWIW, it's been 4 weeks and I have no salt on the fans from what I can see.
6" above the water and a Vortech MP40w running directly underneath.
I am expecting to have to wipe down the underside periodically just like I did with previous lights.

And no... i am not going to open up my Radions.

With the electronics being separated from the cooling area, I'm not concerned.

Do you know how nice it is to hear from someone with REAL world experience?? Thank you Dennis!

I am already sick of these threads and they just started. On new releases something is always missed and that is especially true in this hobby. I HIGHLY doubt that Ecotech would fail with a MAJOR feature like, "where the fan is located."

I am sure little things will pop up here and there with a brand new design but I am not worried about where the fan is located.

For those of you that have a nice fish room behind your tank, do you run fans on a fixture? Fish rooms are way more humid then any tank that is setup in an open room. Does this mean I shouldn't use any equipment that has fans if they are in a fish room?

I point this out because my uncle has a huge setup and has a dedicated fish room where all the equipment is hidden. He has to have some large exhaust fans going to keep humidity in check. If salt vapor is really that big of a problem, all of his equipment would be failing. Yet he doesn't have salt buildup all over his fish room.

If the fan located on the bottom bugs you, don't run ANY equipment with a fan over your tank.

 

[pmrossetti]

Ecotech addressed the fan issue and said no problem.
addressed the splash issue and said no problem.
i think we can trust them and move on to the merits of this new light.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Do you know how nice it is to hear from someone with REAL world experience?? Thank you Dennis!

No doubt it is great to hear from someone who actually has the product on hand. Only a very select few of us are so privileged at this point.

I am already sick of these threads and they just started. On new releases something is always missed and that is especially true in this hobby. I HIGHLY doubt that Ecotech would fail with a MAJOR feature like, "where the fan is located."

If you're sick of these threads, don't read/comment on them... Again, the argument that Ecotech is a great company and therefore could not possibly overlook something like this is a terrible argument. Do you automatically trust them so much ($750 of your hard-earned money) that you won't even consider investigating into any possible perceivable issue?

I am sure little things will pop up here and there with a brand new design but I am not worried about where the fan is located.

For those of you that have a nice fish room behind your tank, do you run fans on a fixture? Fish rooms are way more humid then any tank that is setup in an open room. Does this mean I shouldn't use any equipment that has fans if they are in a fish room?

I point this out because my uncle has a huge setup and has a dedicated fish room where all the equipment is hidden. He has to have some large exhaust fans going to keep humidity in check. If salt vapor is really that big of a problem, all of his equipment would be failing. Yet he doesn't have salt buildup all over his fish room.

If the fan located on the bottom bugs you, don't run ANY equipment with a fan over your tank.

Fans blowing air across your tank is one thing. Exhaust fans in a fish room is another. This cooling system, which directly draws air from right above your tank, possibly well within the reach of salt spray, is yet something else.

Most of the counterarguments about this concern are directed at defending Ecotech. Howabout addressing this particular design concern instead?

 

[ganjero]

Do you know how nice it is to hear from someone with REAL world experience?? Thank you Dennis!

I am already sick of these threads and they just started. On new releases something is always missed and that is especially true in this hobby. I HIGHLY doubt that Ecotech would fail with a MAJOR feature like, "where the fan is located."

I am sure little things will pop up here and there with a brand new design but I am not worried about where the fan is located.

For those of you that have a nice fish room behind your tank, do you run fans on a fixture? Fish rooms are way more humid then any tank that is setup in an open room. Does this mean I shouldn't use any equipment that has fans if they are in a fish room?

I point this out because my uncle has a huge setup and has a dedicated fish room where all the equipment is hidden. He has to have some large exhaust fans going to keep humidity in check. If salt vapor is really that big of a problem, all of his equipment would be failing. Yet he doesn't have salt buildup all over his fish room.

If the fan located on the bottom bugs you, don't run ANY equipment with a fan over your tank.

There are a ton of fixtures out there, and all the ones that have fans have them on the top. Of course the first fixture with fans on the bottom is going to create this kind of concerns, will they work? only time will tell. You seem smart, so don't be a fanboy.

 

[Runfrumu]

Again, salt spray does occur in many/most tanks. Ever notice the salty residue that collects on anything lying right above your tank. Wonder how it got there when that area never comes in direct contact with the water?

I wasn't talking to you, slick.

I was refering to the other poster who who was asking if salt didn't evaporate why does he have to fill his ATO so often.

Salt loss due to salt spray is minimal, but if this person is topping off his water with salt water he will have a big problem very quickly.

Maybe you need to read the post I was referencing.

 

[rtparty]

No doubt it is great to hear from someone who actually has the product on hand. Only a very select few of us are so privileged at this point.



If you're sick of these threads, don't read/comment on them... Again, the argument that Ecotech is a great company and therefore could not possibly overlook something like this is a terrible argument. Do you automatically trust them so much ($750 of your hard-earned money) that you won't even consider investigating into any possible perceivable issue?

I don't see an issue here so there is no issue to look into. Ecotech said things will be fine and yes I trust them. If things really go that bad, I have full faith that Ecotech will take of any issues.




Fans blowing air across your tank is one thing. Exhaust fans in a fish room is another. This cooling system, which directly draws air from right above your tank, possibly well within the reach of salt spray, is yet something else.

Most of the counterarguments about this concern are directed at defending Ecotech. Howabout addressing this particular design concern instead?

I don't think I was very clear in how I stated things. I am not talking about the exhaust fans or clip on fans blowing across the water. I am talking about putting an ATI fixture right above the tank and having it suck in that hot, humid and salty air of the fish room.

Again I don't find an issue with the fan placement. My JBJ Nano Cube has two fans that have been sucking in air for three years. The hood sits RIGHT on the water. They tried to seal the area off but after three years you can see some water that made its way into the hood. I can't guarantee where that water came from. I could have gotten some in there when I was changing bulbs or other odd maintenance. Even with that small amount of water that got in, none of the electrical components are having issues. The fans finally crapped out after three years of usage but that is expected.

My responses in bold.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Also, to clarify, the design concern is possibility of buildup of salt within the fixture and how that might affect the cooling of the lights. I understand that the electronic components are shielded and protected. I can also accept the idea that the fan is highly resistant to corrosion. However, that does not mean that salt buildup would not be a problem in other ways. For one, it could provide resistance to airflow if it builds up enough. For another, it would affect the exchange of heat from the metal to the air. Cleaning the inside of this fixture would be a pain, but necessary if salt does actively get into the intake.

 

[djk83]

Haters are gonna hate. Do you guys think that Ecotech didnt do R&D before they released these fixtures?

 

[rtparty]

There are a ton of fixtures out there, and all the ones that have fans have them on the top. Of course the first fixture with fans on the bottom is going to create this kind of concerns, will they work? only time will tell. You seem smart, so don't be a fanboy.

I am sure many people told Ecotech that having the motor on the OUTSIDE of the tank was a stupid idea too.

People questioned T5s and they then questioned if they needed to be cooled. They questioned LEDs. They questioned if we even needed skimmers and then questioned why a cone was needed instead.

Eoctech did a very bold move by putting the fan on the bottom. I could see the light in person and totally hate it.

I just don't find an issue with the fan. I live in Utah though and humidity is non-existent here. When I lived on the east coast in Virginia, I hated the humidity. I could definitely see where the humidity was destroying everything. Fortunately, I don't have that problem here so I am not worried about it. So if that makes me a fanboy, so be it.

Viva la Ecotech! :beer:

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Description of the JBJ Nano Cube cooling system
"Fan-Cooled "Flip Top" Canopy
The new redesigned canopy offer built-in cooling fans that draw out the heat generated by the lamps before they have time to warm up your water temperature. The unique canopy draws air in through the sides and pushes the warm air through our new ventilated reflector and up through the fans for a cool running cube. It allows you to adjust the positioning of the canopy with our integrated canopy stands that hold up your canopy for routine maintenance. The front of the canopy offers a feeding door that also flips back for quick access."

I'm not particularly familiar with this design, but from the description it sounds that the air is drawn from the outside and then kicked back out again. You mentioned that the area is sealed off, but water gets in there. Well, this situation still doesn't sound quite analogous. Does salt spray from your tank go directly into the intake of your fans?

Also, with the ATI fixture, I believe the fans are placed above the fixture (could be wrong, I have never had this fixture). If this is the case, it is not within the line of fire of direct salt spray.

 

[rtparty]

I'm not particularly familiar with this design, but from the description it sounds that the air is drawn from the outside and then kicked back out again. You mentioned that the area is sealed off, but water gets in there. Well, this situation still doesn't sound quite analogous. Does salt spray from your tank go directly into the intake of your fans?

Also, with the ATI fixture, I believe the fans are placed above the fixture (could be wrong, I have never had this fixture). If this is the case, it is not within the line of fire of direct salt spray.

Yes, cool air is sucked in from the outside but without the lights being 100% sealed off, I have to imagine that salt spray has been sucked in over time. Enough to ruin anything? I have no idea.

Regarding ATI fans,

Yes they are on the top but if that fixture is in the fish room with the sump, there has to be some salt vapor going on. Maybe I am wrong though. Maybe salt vapor only stays within the area of the tank.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

In my own experience, salt spray doesn't carry too far from a tank, but that depends on a lot of things. However, I have noticed it build up on anything directly above any of the tanks I've had, perhaps within a range of up to 6". In none of these situations was I using a fan to directly draw air from within this area. The vast majority of fan-cooling designs I've seen have the fan on top of the fixture. This design has not been an issue. We now have a new and perhaps innovative design, which may prove to be perfectly great and not an issue at all. However, some of us apparently have the gall to question Ecotech and express concerns with this design. How dare us...

 

[PowermanKW]

Also, to clarify, the design concern is possibility of buildup of salt within the fixture and how that might affect the cooling of the lights. I understand that the electronic components are shielded and protected. I can also accept the idea that the fan is highly resistant to corrosion. However, that does not mean that salt buildup would not be a problem in other ways. For one, it could provide resistance to airflow if it builds up enough. For another, it would affect the exchange of heat from the metal to the air. Cleaning the inside of this fixture would be a pain, but necessary if salt does actively get into the intake.

Well in that respect, you have just identified the problem in probably 90% of light fixtures in use. The insides are filled with dust, the fan is caked, filters are plugged, and not too many people care about that stuff after they plug in their new shiney light.

Diminished cooling due to lowered air flow, or dirty cooling surfaces effects every light, and this is nothing unique to Ecotech.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

It is a problem with most lights, but what other lights have this particular design? If it is already a nuisance in those lights, which typically have fairly open designs, maybe it would be worse in a design where the airflow is internal and the potential for drawing air with more particulates (salts) is higher.

 

[ganjero]

I am sure many people told Ecotech that having the motor on the OUTSIDE of the tank was a stupid idea too.

I own vortechs since day 1 and there were tons of concerns, some became true in many cases and some in a few cases. Just FYI.

If you look at the picture posted it seems that the heatsinks are quite small for the amount of LEDs, which makes the fans vital in this fixture so any concerns about the fans are understandable.

 

[PowermanKW]

It is a problem with most lights, but what other lights have this particular design? If it is already a nuisance in those lights, which typically have fairly open designs, maybe it would be worse in a design where the airflow is internal and the potential for drawing air with more particulates (salts) is higher.

What design is that... one that takes air and passes it through a fixture? Humididty is the same issue with any active cooling fixture. Actual vapor and how much salt is or is not in it and whether this light will have more than others remains to be seen. 6" above the water is a pretty standard distance. There are other lights that discharge outside of the light.. which means they draw air in, usually on a side vent and then discharge it out the top. Those fixtures should be covered in salt as well if it was such a concern....

However... what we do not have a is a well known documented case that there is a ton of salt in vapor above the tank and any fixture that moves air though the fixture will soon be covered in salt. It would be pretty rampant if that was the case which it is not. Just about all fixtures employ active cooling through the fixture. And it will not make any difference if the air is discharged in, or discharged out. And 6" above the tank does not seem to be much of a problem except fish splashing it and I don't see that being a problem more with this light than any other. Nor do I see the frequency that this light needs to be cleaned any higher than any other light.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Who is saying anything about humidity or salt "vapor" (salt is definitely not in vapor form here btw) for that matter? I'm talking about salt spray. Salt spray is not an uncommon experience. Like I said, salt residue gets on surfaces directly above marine tanks. How exactly would you want to have documented evidence of this? Do you want pictures of salt residue on light fixtures?

This fixture design is unique in that it draws air from directly above the tank and pushes it through an internal system. If the fan were positioned above the fixture, salt spray wouldn't likely get to it.

 

[PowermanKW]

Who is saying anything about humidity or salt "vapor" (salt is definitely not in vapor form here btw) for that matter? I'm talking about salt spray. Salt spray is not an uncommon experience. Like I said, salt residue gets on surfaces directly above marine tanks. How exactly would you want to have documented evidence of this? Do you want pictures of salt residue on light fixtures?

This fixture design is unique in that it draws air from directly above the tank and pushes it through an internal system. If the fan were positioned above the fixture, salt spray wouldn't likely get to it.

No need to be difficult... I'm not talking about salt vapor, I'm talking about salt in water vapor or mist 6" above a tank.

Most glass tops do get covered, but they are also only 2-3" above the water.

Fact is there are plenty of fixtures on the market that are used 6" above a tank. Plenty of fixtures that move air through the fixture above the tank. Plenty of fixtures that do the same thing this one is doing and do not seem to have a huge problem with salt deposits and corrosion.

All it would take is one month to see any problems... this light has been beta tested plenty by different folks I'm sure and if the problems were as real as some seem to think it would have presented itself pretty darn quick and we would not even be having this conversation because Ecotech would have changed it.