Ecoxotic 50 watt Photon Cannon
- Thread starter zygote2k
- Start date
Garage1217
GET OFF MY LAWN
They should work well but as stated, no where near the efficiency of a good 3w unit. I had 30w versions of the same basic led design in my maxspect and dabbled in custom 50w units I ordered in. Since they run no optics, they act like a giant flood light which is great for blending in the blues.
Also over time, this type of led degrades many times faster than most leds. At a year to a year and a half of running say 10 hours a day, they do loose a lot of output. I noticed output loss on the versions I was testing even after a few days of use. You could even dim down the chip to the point were to could look at it and see some of the chips were a lot darker than others / when new they were all even.
Also over time, this type of led degrades many times faster than most leds. At a year to a year and a half of running say 10 hours a day, they do loose a lot of output. I noticed output loss on the versions I was testing even after a few days of use. You could even dim down the chip to the point were to could look at it and see some of the chips were a lot darker than others / when new they were all even.
zygote2k
Nuisance Algae
What brand of LED's were you using for the 50w version?
This light has optics- 100 degree glass lens.
How can you make a blanket statement saying that these leds degrade faster than the rest when you've only tested a few?
zygote2k
Nuisance Algae
Reef H20
Garage1217
GET OFF MY LAWN
The versions I saw in person locally did not have any optics at all unless I just missed it. Just a reflector around the standard 50W led but no lens that I could see, again I may have missed it. I have used 2 versions from two main manufacturers in china, one being edison that produce this type of led, both netted the same thing. Not a blanket statement *LOL* All I was saying is they will in fact loose output over time much faster than other types of leds & are not even close to as efficient as a good 3w like a cree xp-g or xr-e.
All that needs to be done is to replace the led itself, my guess being at 1.5-2 years which is not a biggie as the cost will only keep dropping. Just remember, they make two versions usually, one that runs at 15-18V and one that runs around 25-30V. Just make sure you know the voltage they run at before ordering.
I think they are a cool idea, and good for simple setups. No idea what they are charging for them as I hope it would not be a ton of cash.
Just looked up some pics, again I see no optics and I did not see any at reef culture who carries them locally already. Just a reflector dish around the led which could be what they use for 100 degree "optics"??? Maybe it is just a super shallow lens I did not notice.
Found this article, would be a good read for some of you.
http://glassbox-design.com/2010/ecoxotic-photon-canon-led/
The photon cannons are between 54 something & 65lm/w compared to around 350lm/w found in say an XP-G. The reflector should help increase this on the photon cannon but have not seen any test data.
All that needs to be done is to replace the led itself, my guess being at 1.5-2 years which is not a biggie as the cost will only keep dropping. Just remember, they make two versions usually, one that runs at 15-18V and one that runs around 25-30V. Just make sure you know the voltage they run at before ordering.
I think they are a cool idea, and good for simple setups. No idea what they are charging for them as I hope it would not be a ton of cash.
Just looked up some pics, again I see no optics and I did not see any at reef culture who carries them locally already. Just a reflector dish around the led which could be what they use for 100 degree "optics"??? Maybe it is just a super shallow lens I did not notice.
Found this article, would be a good read for some of you.
http://glassbox-design.com/2010/ecoxotic-photon-canon-led/
The photon cannons are between 54 something & 65lm/w compared to around 350lm/w found in say an XP-G. The reflector should help increase this on the photon cannon but have not seen any test data.
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It's actually a fairly common trait amongst higher wattage multi-die LEDs. It's got more to do with the thermal design of the package than anything. Cramming that many dies into a small area poses a lot of problems with thermal management. This is irrespective of the heatsink used, as it's a flaw of the LED package.
If you take a look at the datasheet for the Edison 50W Edistar LED, the L70 rating at 125C junction temperature is just over 10,000 hours. A typical single die LED at the same junction temperature is rated to 50,000 hours. Don't get me wrong. 10,000 hours is still a lot of use, but it's not quite what most will expect from LED products.
Garage1217
GET OFF MY LAWN
Thanks for that evilc66, I did no the spec sheet handy as it is on my office pc. All info you posted is in fact correct so again thanks.
A 10K hour rating I find a little hard to believe personally as I saw degradation early on as I noted even in the smaller 30w units, but none died & all were still painfully bright. Still have quite a few in my desk. I would still put replacement at 1.5-2 years MAX or around 5K -7.5K hours.
Lets say 10,000 hours MAX, that would net a life of 2.73 years which is not bad at all, but compared to an efficient led such as the smaller crees which can last 14 years at 10 hours a day & are many times more energy efficient... well it just does not make much sense to me. And I just saw a retail price of like $540 or $550? WOW.....
A 10K hour rating I find a little hard to believe personally as I saw degradation early on as I noted even in the smaller 30w units, but none died & all were still painfully bright. Still have quite a few in my desk. I would still put replacement at 1.5-2 years MAX or around 5K -7.5K hours.
Lets say 10,000 hours MAX, that would net a life of 2.73 years which is not bad at all, but compared to an efficient led such as the smaller crees which can last 14 years at 10 hours a day & are many times more energy efficient... well it just does not make much sense to me. And I just saw a retail price of like $540 or $550? WOW.....
I trust Edison Opto with their LEDs and reliability information a lot more than any other manufacturer of similar LEDs (I'm talking about 50W+ LEDs so there isn't any confusion). There is a lot of crap on the market currently, and these guys sadly get bundled into that group unecessarily.
Now, what could improve situations is if Ecoxotic actually produced a decent heatsink that would lower the die temperature considerably to get more life. This may not be the case, unless they have improved upon the various prototypes that I've seen over the last 6 months.
Zygote2k, I'm not trying to bash you or your decision to purchace the lamp. Just some conversation about the various features and issues, that's all. I'd like to see the PAR results, and some pictures once you get a chance.
Now, what could improve situations is if Ecoxotic actually produced a decent heatsink that would lower the die temperature considerably to get more life. This may not be the case, unless they have improved upon the various prototypes that I've seen over the last 6 months.
Zygote2k, I'm not trying to bash you or your decision to purchace the lamp. Just some conversation about the various features and issues, that's all. I'd like to see the PAR results, and some pictures once you get a chance.
Garage1217
GET OFF MY LAWN
And no offense was meant by myself either. You asked for pro's and cons and I posted some, that is all. I do hope it works out great for you!
zygote2k
Nuisance Algae
No offense taken from anyone. I'd like to have as much info on these as possible. I've had to do a lot of digging just to find what I have since Ecoxotic only told me the name of the led maunfacturer.
There is definitely a 100 degree glass lens and it puts out a ton of light at least 24" wide and sufficiently lights the bottom of the tank from 12" off the surface. The light appears to be about 12k compared to 10k mh and 14k mh- not too yellow and not too blue. I intend to purchase the 453nm version and use it as well, but I need some more info. Can any of you guys find the info?
There is definitely a 100 degree glass lens and it puts out a ton of light at least 24" wide and sufficiently lights the bottom of the tank from 12" off the surface. The light appears to be about 12k compared to 10k mh and 14k mh- not too yellow and not too blue. I intend to purchase the 453nm version and use it as well, but I need some more info. Can any of you guys find the info?
zygote2k
Nuisance Algae
A disturbing thing from Ecoxotic When I asked if one would be sufficient to light a 60 cube, they replied, " It might not be a good look." They showed me a picture of a 120 with 4 of them over the top 2 white, and 2 blue.
They also said that they would post specs on their website last week, but I have yet to see any. They certainly aren't doing the best marketing job with these.
I alos realize that these are no where near as efficient as 3w Cree's, but there simply isn't another fixture with this much focused light on the market.
I'm a big fan of nanotuners P38's I've outfitted all of my maintenance tanks with them because of the spotlighting and shadowy effects that they give, and I even have a DIY LED light with the latest and greatest Crees, but the problem with both of those systems is that they don't provide enough coverage without becoming ridiculously expensive. The DIY's and similar looking products are extremely unpleasing to the eye too.
At least the Cannon is sleek and clean and lives up to its' name.
They also said that they would post specs on their website last week, but I have yet to see any. They certainly aren't doing the best marketing job with these.
I alos realize that these are no where near as efficient as 3w Cree's, but there simply isn't another fixture with this much focused light on the market.
I'm a big fan of nanotuners P38's I've outfitted all of my maintenance tanks with them because of the spotlighting and shadowy effects that they give, and I even have a DIY LED light with the latest and greatest Crees, but the problem with both of those systems is that they don't provide enough coverage without becoming ridiculously expensive. The DIY's and similar looking products are extremely unpleasing to the eye too.
At least the Cannon is sleek and clean and lives up to its' name.
murfman
New member
I know when I saw them at Reefstock, in March. The demo model put out a 4' circle from 48". The Ecoxotic owner or VP was telling us that hey planned on working on an oblong reflector to use over narrow tanks. This would give an oval vs circle and I could easily put 3 over my 8' tank. I too am waiting on the specs. We have a local vendor that sells LED units and his PAR readings are 300 at 9" under the surface. I'd like to test one on my 30" deep tank.
zygote2k
Nuisance Algae
I like the P38 spotlighting look better than the cannon, but I like the easy, simplistic style of the cannon over the use of many P38's to do the same job.
I really liked the effect of the spots- that's why I switched all my maintenance tanks to them. In the case of my own tank, I wanted to see what the cannon was all about and I'm willing to be part of the beta tests on the cannon.
I think if I had a long tank, I would use a combination of both.
