Eel Identification with pic? Help me out here

[luther1200]

What he did was hardly rape the beach.

 

[heap]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14755509#post14755509 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquabucket
Got it! So which are you? A clubber or a hypocrite hugger?

i'm hypocritical about hugging clubbers.

 

[Aquabucket]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14755689#post14755689 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rendogg
I'm not saying everyone who collects something here and there is a bad person. I am saying that there needs to be accountability when collecting, not only on a commercial scale but on a private scale as well. We, as hobbyists, need to be ambassadors of our hobby, having an aquarium with life in it is a privilege not a right. If we don't start acting like ambassadors and keep raping the beaches and water, we may lose our privilege. And that will be the fault of irresponsible practices, both commercial and private. The hobby is shifting towards cultured coral, tank bred fish, even cultured live rock. We need to keep progressing not regressing. Why revert back to and support old archaic ways that are unsustainable? Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

Have you ever collected before? Collecting your own species is much more forgiving to the animals collected. Do you know how many creatures die for each one that ends up at the store? The money local collectors pay for licenses and permits contribute to the protection of native species and the development of fisheries.

You keep saying the OP is irresponsible for collecting the eels with-out having an absolute ID. He did think that they were a type of sand eel which were unprotected. Sometimes as a collector you need to observe the species in captivity awhile before an exact ID can be found. If you catch something when collecting you have to make a choice. Do you let it go or do you want to keep it. Now if you don't have an exact ID of the specimen the question can be tricky one. Is it invasive? If it is it must be destroyed.

The best thing one can do while collecting is to keep an open dialog with your local agencies. Many of the gobies I collected were used for identification purposes for the goby research institute. I even sent them specimens for examination. You can find some of pictures on their site till this day.

 

[paraletho]

Go Aquabucket. Sometimes things die for science and knowledge I do this for a living. Rendogg yes we have to be as careful as we can and do our best to preserve our environment. I'm not upset with the OP but if he goes out tommorrow or next week and gets ten more cause his died or his buddy wants some I might have something to say. It is not the smartest or the strongest that will survive it is the most adaptable that is mother N's way. Unfortunately that probably leaves us out.

 

[rendogg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14755841#post14755841 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquabucket
Have you ever collected before? Collecting your own species is much more forgiving to the animals collected. Do you know how many creatures die for each one that ends up at the store? The money local collectors pay for licenses and permits contribute to the protection of native species and the development of fisheries.

You keep saying the OP is irresponsible for collecting the eels with-out having an absolute ID. He did think that they were a type of sand eel which were unprotected. Sometimes as a collector you need to observe the species in captivity awhile before an exact ID can be found. If you catch something when collecting you have to make a choice. Do you let it go or do you want to keep it. Now if you don't have an exact ID of the specimen the question can be tricky one. Is it invasive? If it is it must be destroyed.

The best thing one can do while collecting is to keep an open dialog with your local agencies. Many of the gobies I collected were used for identification purposes for the goby research institute. I even sent them specimens for examination. You can find some of pictures on their site till this day.

This really isn't a debate over commercial or privately collected fish. I understand the potential pros and cons of collecting. I could argue that it would all depend on the collector and the circumstances how forgiving it is, how many creatures die every year from people collecting and neglecting, the money collected from "collectors" is a pittance and protection is funded primarily through angling licenses.
If your intent is to ID the animal, why not take a picture or just take one if you really must. If you see a suspect animal, report it, you can't exactly catch and kill anything you suspect to be invasive. The ID is still inconclusive and it very well could be a native species. There wouldn't be so many invasive species if people left them alone. Unfortunately it's ignorant hobbyists that can be blamed for much of it, especially in Florida.
Good point, keep an open dialog with your local agencies while collecting. Try not to bring home a half dozen unknown fish and put them in a 60 gallon.
I am really tired of defending the rights of these eels...if they only knew. With that, I bid you adieu.

 

[rendogg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14755931#post14755931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by paraletho
Go Aquabucket. Sometimes things die for science and knowledge I do this for a living. Rendogg yes we have to be as careful as we can and do our best to preserve our environment. I'm not upset with the OP but if he goes out tommorrow or next week and gets ten more cause his died or his buddy wants some I might have something to say. It is not the smartest or the strongest that will survive it is the most adaptable that is mother N's way. Unfortunately that probably leaves us out.

Eloquently spoken.

 

[freddy4130]

news flash!!!! Eels don't have rights. Humans do.

 

[darkdruid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14752286#post14752286 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RumLad
Do you capture more than you plan to keep

Yes, I always keep more than I need. I trade with several LFS's and individuals for livestock I can't collect myself and for dry goods. And *GASP*!!!!! I even sell some stuff. I stay within the legal collecting limits, but if I'm driving 1400 miles round trip, I'm maxing those limits out.

 

[darkdruid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14755689#post14755689 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rendogg
If we don't start acting like ambassadors and keep raping the beaches and water, we may lose our privilege.

I tried raping the beaches once, I got a rash from the sand and you talk about crabs!!!

 

[CoRPS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14756488#post14756488 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by darkdruid
I tried raping the beaches once, I got a rash from the sand and you talk about crabs!!!

:lmao:

 

[jbird69]

How do you know if these eels have enough room? Or does it not matter because they are classified as "bait"? Their lives are obviously of less consequence than say, a hippo tang...or no, how about a moorish idol? Whats the difference between whats going on here and puting a tang in a 10g tank? Or keeping a moorish idol at all. You could fill a library with posts on RC condemming such practice, and your calling ME a fish hugger? And now I see some of the same guys from those threads defending the OP with this...and you call ME a hypocrite?
...but hey, theyre just bait right?...
I wonder what would happen if I posted that I was using yellow tangs for barracuda bait? or coral beauties, or copperband butterflies. Nah, I'll just use the lowly, unidentified snake eel, of which we know nothing about. What the hell is the difference?

 

[sipos624]

Bro your getting really emotional about this and it's sort of funny. They are just fish and if done legally he can do whatever he wants. Hell if you buy a (legal) fish for any amount of money its yours to do with as you please. Why is the fish i kill and use for bait so different morally than a ornamental fish of equal abundance? Its not... Who's to say they are not comfortable; as long as the conditions are satisfactory i would say its better than being condemned as cobia bait. An other thing is you are naming regular free swimming fish not other eels, in my book they're two completely different things.

-Mike

 

[DaytonaJoe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14757113#post14757113 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jbird69
How do you know if these eels have enough room? Or does it not matter because they are classified as "bait"? Their lives are obviously of less consequence than say, a hippo tang...or no, how about a moorish idol? Whats the difference between whats going on here and puting a tang in a 10g tank? Or keeping a moorish idol at all. You could fill a library with posts on RC condemming such practice, and your calling ME a fish hugger? And now I see some of the same guys from those threads defending the OP with this...and you call ME a hypocrite?
...but hey, theyre just bait right?...
I wonder what would happen if I posted that I was using yellow tangs for barracuda bait? or coral beauties, or copperband butterflies. Nah, I'll just use the lowly, unidentified snake eel, of which we know nothing about. What the hell is the difference?

Wow, talk about stretching it. How does he know if the eels have enough room? The same way people figured out whether a hippo tang has enough room. It would be less responsible of him to purchase a moorish idol because they are almost guaranteed to die in a tank. No one knows whether these eels will live or die in his tank, but from the sounds of it they are doing well. If they all died, I bet he wouldn't go and take six more. And he would have done us the favor of demonstrating that this species doesn't fair well in captivity. It's funny you mention using yellow tangs for fishing bait, because that's what they do with them in Hawaii (or so I've heard from someone living out there). There are many fish/eels in the sea.

 

[darkdruid]

Yellow tangs for fishing bait??? Now you really have me upset!!! You take my favorite fish of all times and reduce it to bait status??
How could you even think that!! What a waste! Your hook might get cleaned or you might sling the bait off when casting!
Why take a chance of losing such a great fish when a tang and tartarsauce on sourdough is soooooooo delicious? Lightly grilled with a dash of garlic salt....yummy!!!

 

[jbird69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14757566#post14757566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sipos624
Who's to say they are not comfortable;

-Mike

well "bro", I sure havent seen any new pictures of our comfortable little friends.
At least their in the hands of a compitent "marine biologist" right? BWAAAHHHAAAAA!

I probably kill and eat more fish and game every year than you have in your short, young life. I'm waste deep in deer, elk and salmon guts every fall, and tuna and dorado every summer.

I'm not arguing because I'm a bug hugger. far from it. I'm arguing now because the insults flying out of the defending party are entertaining enough to keep the flame lit. The OP asked a few pages ago for the thread to be locked so no more off topic posts could come in. But what do you all do? you keep fanning the "off topic" flames. I could give a rats *** about those eels. I think what he did was dumb, and it sets a bad example, but I wont be losing any sleep over it.
Fact is, I'll never see it your way and youll never see it mine.

 

[vito is hooked]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14748549#post14748549 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Littleg182
I take it back, might be some type of spoon-nosed eel. However, Fanned out dorsal and anal fins towards base of tail, larger spots, spots located ON the dorsal do not match them. The head does match them though. I give up...identifying juvenile fish is not easy. This has been an interesting thread but I'm done in here. I can't wait till the next time I find something interesting, bring it home, and try to id it! Hopefully I can create an even bigger storm than this one:hammer:

I hear ya, Dog. I,ll be comeing the beach ALL this weekend (Not to many snowbirds left-) And WHEN I catch one, he,s going on the hook for the MONSTER RED GROUPER that I,ve seen diveing in the BOCA PASS. (ALLMOST TARPON SEASON) ALL PEACE!!

 

[sipos624]

This has been an interesting thread but I'm done in here.

That is why he hasn't posted any pics and any other posts, that was on page 5. You are the only one who is disagreeing and fanning the flames. A post with just 5 people agreeing with each other would not go 7 pages unless it has boat loads of pics.

I probably kill and eat more fish and game every year than you have in your short, young life.

I'll take that fish bet.

Im not going to post anymore and i would advise you to do so as well to not "fan the flames."

-Mike

 

[Aquabucket]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14756076#post14756076 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rendogg
I am really tired of defending the rights of these eels...if they only knew. With that, I bid you adieu.

I just think you are going a bit overboard with your judgment of the OP that's all. If you really want to freak out you should see how many young fish (including native sunfishes) are seined by the thousands for bait by anglers. The OP stumbled upon some eels that were exhibiting some unusual behavior by flopping around out of water. Chances are they would have been consumed by wading birds or some other predator if they continued that behavior. Maybe they dry up in the sun. Maybe another angler comes along and uses them for bait. No one really knows what their fate would have been. At least now many people have seen pics of these eels and may help with ID'ing them which could be useful especially if they end up being invasive which is a distinct possibility.

 

[rendogg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14759135#post14759135 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquabucket
I just think you are going a bit overboard with your judgment of the OP that's all. If you really want to freak out you should see how many young fish (including native sunfishes) are seined by the thousands for bait by anglers. The OP stumbled upon some eels that were flopping around out of water. Chances are they would have been consumed by wading birds or some other predator if they continued that behavior. Maybe they dry up in the sun. Maybe an angler comes along and uses them for bait. No one really knows what their fate would have been. At least now many people have seen pics of these eels and may help with ID'ing them which could be useful especially if they end up being invasive which is a distinct possibility.

Why do you want to keep debating this? No, I don't really want to "freak out" about anything. I know worse things are happening out there, it's just not being posted on RC, therefor I am not commenting on those other atrocities. You are sidetracking with irrelevant points. Freshwater or oceanic Sunfish? Freshwater sunfish are invasive up here. Who knows what would have happened to those eels? Probably they would have waited for the tide and resumed their happy little lives (eels are known for being able to breathe atmospheric oxygen and can survive extended periods out of water). Who are we to decide natures way, if it's not food, leave it alone. I doubt anyone on here can accurately ID these juvenile eels, they need to mature first. Provided they live long enough in the OP's 60 gal tank( doubtful, haven't seen any recent pics, they could be dead already)to grow to maturity. Invasive or native?....find out in a few years.... effective IDing, I think not!

 

[Aquabucket]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14759283#post14759283 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rendogg
Why do you want to keep debating this? No, I don't really want to "freak out" about anything. I know worse things are happening out there, it's just not being posted on RC, therefor I am not commenting on those other atrocities. You are sidetracking with irrelevant points. Freshwater or oceanic Sunfish? Freshwater sunfish are invasive up here. Who knows what would have happened to those eels? Probably they would have waited for the tide and resumed their happy little lives (eels are known for being able to breathe atmospheric oxygen and can survive extended periods out of water). Who are we to decide natures way, if it's not food, leave it alone. I doubt anyone on here can accurately ID these juvenile eels, they need to mature first. Provided they live long enough in the OP's 60 gal tank( doubtful, haven't seen any recent pics, they could be dead already)to grow to maturity. Invasive or native?....find out in a few years.... effective IDing, I think not!

I keep debating this because I have collected the very same waters as the OP and you sound like you don't have much experience with collecting in the area. Those eels would not have lasted very long exhibiting that type of behavior from my observations in the field. When animals expose themselves like that down there the large wading birds are usually the first to nab them up. The presence of the OP and his friends may have kept them at bay. I had a spot where a giant egret regularly stood right next to me as I fished. Every once and awhile I would toss him a shrimp that I was using for bait.

You also think ID'ing things is easy but even the experts have difficult times. I collected a goby once that took weeks to ID by the institute. They were also very eager to get in-tank aquarium pics because much of the stock photos they had were from fish taken out of water. In-tank pictures are much better because the fish and it's appendages are not collapsed and their colors and patterns show more. They also gave me a list of gobies to try to collect and ID.

Having a camera in-field is nice but they are not the best at getting a clear ID. Taking pictures in the field can also be more stressful on the specimen as you try to get a good shot. You will also need to get a water proof one.

Collecting can be fun and informative. When people like yourselves start to pass judgment on collectors I tend get a bit defensive.