Electric current in my tank
- Thread starter Tek
- Start date
lauremf2002
New member
I would add a grounding probe so that if it ever happens again it wont shock you. Next time it could be more than a little buzz on a cut. They are so cheap, there is no reason not to use one.
not my words
not my words
This topic came up over a year ago and I saved this response. Hope he doesn't mind me re posting it here:
Response by Ed (eddybabyhd) :
<OI am going to provide my 2 cents...
We read quotes all the time like, “Stray voltage is something that exists in every tank. Stray voltage can be eliminated with a simple ground probe available at most pet shops in the twenty dollar range. Elimination of stray voltage is a simple step in reducing the stress on your fish. Every marine tank should be grounded for your protection and that of your fish.”
Is it true? Well not exactly, and as I will discuss below, the addition of a ground probe may even make matters worse!
Clearly electrical items submerged within your aquarium (power heads, heaters, etc.) can provide a direct interface between the prime power source (120 volts alternating (60 Hz) current (VAC) and the water, but some claim that the stray voltages can be indirectly induced by the lighting systems. This is possible because the skin depth of salt water (a conductor) at 60 Hz is not zero. “Skin depth” is the distance that electromagnetic energy can penetrate a conductor. Salt water is a conductor, but not a perfect conductor, so there is penetration by 60 Hz emissions. These induced voltages are small in magnitude. On the other hand, shorted pumps can develop large currents through the water, but typically between the “short” and some “ground” like your ground probe. This means that the inclusion of a ground probe could make things worse. If a pump were shorting within itself, the currents flowing through the water would remain local to the pump and should not be a problem. You would have to have two shorting pumps, or a pump and a ground probe, or some other current path to get electrical current to flow through your tank.
Direct shorts would have other ramifications. Copper or iron could be introduced into the aquarium water as plating occurred. Other compounds would plate out as well since salt water contains many ions in suspension. Electrolysis would occur, heating the water while it liberated oxygen and hydrogen. There is of course a shock hazard.
Most people do not understand the problem however. Lots of web space has been devoted to the measurement of voltage in aquariums... most of which is of no value. Voltage is not the problem, current is. Voltages can exist without there being any current. For example, birds sitting on a power line may be in direct contact with 10,000 volts, but they are not electrocuted. Why? Because no current is flowing through their bodies. Voltage is the “potential” or force that drives electrons through a conductor. The actual flow of electrons is the “current”. It is current that kills. Were one of the birds sitting on the power line to simultaneously touch one of the other wires on the transmission pole, a current path would be created (through the bird) and it would be electrocuted (and probably incinerated as well). So what are you doing when you add a grounding probe to your aquarium? You are providing a current path that might not already exist. Any fish between the source and the grounding probe will experience a current flowing through their bodies... not good!
Taking a volt meter and measuring a voltage in your aquarium relative to some arbitrary ground point does not indicate that there is a current flowing through the salt water (conductive medium) in your aquarium! It just means that the aquarium water is at a different potential than the ground reference point that you chose.
Measuring a voltage between submerged points in your aquarium may be misleading if not done correctly. The use of metallic probes can create a “battery effect” if dissimilar metals are involved (think your volt meter probes are the same metal? What if they are chrome plated (most are) and what if you’ve worn the chrome off one to expose brass or copper beneath?).
Also, some currents in salt water are perfectly natural.
There are all sorts of anecdotes about how much better the fish in a given tank will act and look after adding one of these “grounding probes”. My belief is that if there are any stray currents in the tank coming from an electrical appliance, the solution is not to try to draw the current away with a grounding probe (symptom), rather, the appliance must be damaged and should be replaced (cure).
Fish don’t like electrical current to flow through their bodies. When higher electrical current levels flow through the water, fish will orient their bodies to minimize the potential (voltage) across their bodies, thereby minimizing the electrical current flowing through their bodies. At very low levels, the fish may only act strangely or seek areas of the aquarium where electrical current is not flowing.
The addition of a “grounding probe” will guarantee an electrical current flow in your aquarium and may induce erratic behavior or disease in your fish and corals. If you have defective aquarium appliances that are creating a current path in your aquarium by using the salt water as a conductive medium, then the solution is to repair the appliances or replace them... NOT to divert a portion of the current into a “grounding probe”.
not my words
This topic came up over a year ago and I saved this response. Hope he doesn't mind me re posting it here:
Response by Ed (eddybabyhd) :
<O
I am going to provide my 2 cents...We read quotes all the time like, “Stray voltage is something that exists in every tank. Stray voltage can be eliminated with a simple ground probe available at most pet shops in the twenty dollar range. Elimination of stray voltage is a simple step in reducing the stress on your fish. Every marine tank should be grounded for your protection and that of your fish.”
Is it true? Well not exactly, and as I will discuss below, the addition of a ground probe may even make matters worse!
Clearly electrical items submerged within your aquarium (power heads, heaters, etc.) can provide a direct interface between the prime power source (120 volts alternating (60 Hz) current (VAC) and the water, but some claim that the stray voltages can be indirectly induced by the lighting systems. This is possible because the skin depth of salt water (a conductor) at 60 Hz is not zero. “Skin depth” is the distance that electromagnetic energy can penetrate a conductor. Salt water is a conductor, but not a perfect conductor, so there is penetration by 60 Hz emissions. These induced voltages are small in magnitude. On the other hand, shorted pumps can develop large currents through the water, but typically between the “short” and some “ground” like your ground probe. This means that the inclusion of a ground probe could make things worse. If a pump were shorting within itself, the currents flowing through the water would remain local to the pump and should not be a problem. You would have to have two shorting pumps, or a pump and a ground probe, or some other current path to get electrical current to flow through your tank.
Direct shorts would have other ramifications. Copper or iron could be introduced into the aquarium water as plating occurred. Other compounds would plate out as well since salt water contains many ions in suspension. Electrolysis would occur, heating the water while it liberated oxygen and hydrogen. There is of course a shock hazard.
Most people do not understand the problem however. Lots of web space has been devoted to the measurement of voltage in aquariums... most of which is of no value. Voltage is not the problem, current is. Voltages can exist without there being any current. For example, birds sitting on a power line may be in direct contact with 10,000 volts, but they are not electrocuted. Why? Because no current is flowing through their bodies. Voltage is the “potential” or force that drives electrons through a conductor. The actual flow of electrons is the “current”. It is current that kills. Were one of the birds sitting on the power line to simultaneously touch one of the other wires on the transmission pole, a current path would be created (through the bird) and it would be electrocuted (and probably incinerated as well). So what are you doing when you add a grounding probe to your aquarium? You are providing a current path that might not already exist. Any fish between the source and the grounding probe will experience a current flowing through their bodies... not good!
Taking a volt meter and measuring a voltage in your aquarium relative to some arbitrary ground point does not indicate that there is a current flowing through the salt water (conductive medium) in your aquarium! It just means that the aquarium water is at a different potential than the ground reference point that you chose.
Measuring a voltage between submerged points in your aquarium may be misleading if not done correctly. The use of metallic probes can create a “battery effect” if dissimilar metals are involved (think your volt meter probes are the same metal? What if they are chrome plated (most are) and what if you’ve worn the chrome off one to expose brass or copper beneath?).
Also, some currents in salt water are perfectly natural.
There are all sorts of anecdotes about how much better the fish in a given tank will act and look after adding one of these “grounding probes”. My belief is that if there are any stray currents in the tank coming from an electrical appliance, the solution is not to try to draw the current away with a grounding probe (symptom), rather, the appliance must be damaged and should be replaced (cure).
Fish don’t like electrical current to flow through their bodies. When higher electrical current levels flow through the water, fish will orient their bodies to minimize the potential (voltage) across their bodies, thereby minimizing the electrical current flowing through their bodies. At very low levels, the fish may only act strangely or seek areas of the aquarium where electrical current is not flowing.
The addition of a “grounding probe” will guarantee an electrical current flow in your aquarium and may induce erratic behavior or disease in your fish and corals. If you have defective aquarium appliances that are creating a current path in your aquarium by using the salt water as a conductive medium, then the solution is to repair the appliances or replace them... NOT to divert a portion of the current into a “grounding probe”.
lauremf2002
New member
This topic came up over a year ago and I saved this response. Hope he doesn't mind me re posting it here:
Response by Ed (eddybabyhd) :
<O
We read quotes all the time like, "œStray voltage is something that exists in every tank. Stray voltage can be eliminated with a simple ground probe available at most pet shops in the twenty dollar range. Elimination of stray voltage is a simple step in reducing the stress on your fish. Every marine tank should be grounded for your protection and that of your fish."
Is it true? Well not exactly, and as I will discuss below, the addition of a ground probe may even make matters worse!
Clearly electrical items submerged within your aquarium (power heads, heaters, etc.) can provide a direct interface between the prime power source (120 volts alternating (60 Hz) current (VAC) and the water, but some claim that the stray voltages can be indirectly induced by the lighting systems. This is possible because the skin depth of salt water (a conductor) at 60 Hz is not zero. "œSkin depth" is the distance that electromagnetic energy can penetrate a conductor. Salt water is a conductor, but not a perfect conductor, so there is penetration by 60 Hz emissions. These induced voltages are small in magnitude. On the other hand, shorted pumps can develop large currents through the water, but typically between the "œshort" and some "œground" like your ground probe. This means that the inclusion of a ground probe could make things worse. If a pump were shorting within itself, the currents flowing through the water would remain local to the pump and should not be a problem. You would have to have two shorting pumps, or a pump and a ground probe, or some other current path to get electrical current to flow through your tank.
Direct shorts would have other ramifications. Copper or iron could be introduced into the aquarium water as plating occurred. Other compounds would plate out as well since salt water contains many ions in suspension. Electrolysis would occur, heating the water while it liberated oxygen and hydrogen. There is of course a shock hazard.
Most people do not understand the problem however. Lots of web space has been devoted to the measurement of voltage in aquariums... most of which is of no value. Voltage is not the problem, current is. Voltages can exist without there being any current. For example, birds sitting on a power line may be in direct contact with 10,000 volts, but they are not electrocuted. Why? Because no current is flowing through their bodies. Voltage is the "œpotential" or force that drives electrons through a conductor. The actual flow of electrons is the "œcurrent". It is current that kills. Were one of the birds sitting on the power line to simultaneously touch one of the other wires on the transmission pole, a current path would be created (through the bird) and it would be electrocuted (and probably incinerated as well). So what are you doing when you add a grounding probe to your aquarium? You are providing a current path that might not already exist. Any fish between the source and the grounding probe will experience a current flowing through their bodies... not good!
Taking a volt meter and measuring a voltage in your aquarium relative to some arbitrary ground point does not indicate that there is a current flowing through the salt water (conductive medium) in your aquarium! It just means that the aquarium water is at a different potential than the ground reference point that you chose.
Measuring a voltage between submerged points in your aquarium may be misleading if not done correctly. The use of metallic probes can create a "œbattery effect" if dissimilar metals are involved (think your volt meter probes are the same metal? What if they are chrome plated (most are) and what if you've worn the chrome off one to expose brass or copper beneath?).
Also, some currents in salt water are perfectly natural.
There are all sorts of anecdotes about how much better the fish in a given tank will act and look after adding one of these "œgrounding probes". My belief is that if there are any stray currents in the tank coming from an electrical appliance, the solution is not to try to draw the current away with a grounding probe (symptom), rather, the appliance must be damaged and should be replaced (cure).
Fish don't like electrical current to flow through their bodies. When higher electrical current levels flow through the water, fish will orient their bodies to minimize the potential (voltage) across their bodies, thereby minimizing the electrical current flowing through their bodies. At very low levels, the fish may only act strangely or seek areas of the aquarium where electrical current is not flowing.
The addition of a "œgrounding probe" will guarantee an electrical current flow in your aquarium and may induce erratic behavior or disease in your fish and corals. If you have defective aquarium appliances that are creating a current path in your aquarium by using the salt water as a conductive medium, then the solution is to repair the appliances or replace them... NOT to divert a portion of the current into a "œgrounding probe".
I was never suggesting he did not fix the problem, thats a given. And the probe is not to protect your fish, it is to protect you. If there is no where for the current to go, when you stick your hand in your tank, you become the ground and can be electocuted. All your fish would most likely fry as well as you in this instance so, sorry if I dont mind frying my fish INSTEAD of me. Please let me know if a grounding probe would not keep me from getting the shock of a lifetime, I was only suggesting one in the future to protect us humans. Not the tank life.
cjilge
New member
all of my electrical run through a GFI however I got a pretty nasty shock lst summer due to an old mj900 that had a pretty good leak. It wasn't the shock that hurt it was the intant jerk of my arm out of the tank and hitting my elbow on the canopy that hurt! lol It wasn't really all that bad but I did notice my softies at the time seemed ticked off but everything else was fine. I didn't lose anything in the deal.
kender
New member
It all actuality it depends if you are on a concrete foundation or a crawlspace foundation on whether or not you will get a really good shock or not when you create a path of resistance for electricity. If you are on a sub-floor the path is extremely defused so the shock is really more of a very unpleasing tickle, whereas if you are on concrete you might as well stick your tongue in the electrical outlet and call it howdy-doody. ;-P Don't get me wrong, safety is as safety does. Was just clearing why some people might have a different experience then others. ^_^
GFCI is not your friend... you can still be shocked on a GFCI circuit.
Further, when my hand is in the tank, I experience mild "tingling" when my arm contacts the metal reflectors which are clamped to the T5 bulbs above my tank. Remember, the reflectors are clamped to glass bulbs. There is enough potential created by the T5s and transferred to the metal reflectors, that I feel an uncomfortable sensation when that potential flows through my arm to the saltwater.
LL
kender
New member
And that my dear friends is a perfect example of Ohms law of amps x path of resistance. Lightsluvr brings up a very valid point though. The source for the stray current you are feeling may not actually be in the tank. It could be something outside the tank that you are contacting while reaching in the water.
sorry to bring this back lol but m having the same problem... any ideas ???? looks like everything in my tank leaks electric current , i disconnect the main pump i feel the current , disconnect the ATO same , connect the ATO again feel it a little bit more same with power heads , heaters ....
lol but m having the same problem... any ideas ???? looks like everything in my tank leaks electric current , i disconnect the main pump i feel the current , disconnect the ATO same , connect the ATO again feel it a little bit more same with power heads , heaters ....
