Electrical Question for new tank...how many direct lines? GFIs? Input please...

[stunreefer]

Hey all,

I am starting a new build now, and need to get some electrical advice. I had a large Envision tank early this year, and had an electrician run 3 dedicated lines all with GFIs... well due to an unexpected move I had to sell the tank, move out and waste $$$ on the lines I had installed :mad2: Anyways, I now have a new (bit smaller) tank on the way to my new place, but the outlets on the wall where the tank will go are the old 2 prongers (no ground), and I know they share the line with other outlets in the room.

My questions is, how many direct lines do I need run? I honestly dont remember exactly why I had 3 run in the last house . I think it was 1. Lights, 2. Chiller, 3. Everything else.

This new tank will have 2 - 400w MHs (supp T5s), probably a chiller (maybe Profilux PTCs), and everything else. "Everything else" consists of low-watt-drawing equipment such as Tunzes or Vortechs for flow, BK skimmer, heater(s), Profilux Plus II, Eheim return pump, etc.

Everything will go through my Profilux "Power Bars", which are essentially outlet strips. The tank is ~ 185 gals, and ~50 gal sump.

How many GFI protected dedicated lines should I have run?

This time the "run" from the electrical box to the wall is much further than last time, and last time it cost nearly $400 :eek2: So I want to make sure I get exactly what I need.

TIA!

 

[46bfinGA]

I would plan on atleast 3-4. But it really all depends on how much space you have in your panel. You just need to add up your equipments wattage to figure out how many circuits your system will require. Then add one circuit on top of what you come up with.

FWIW, I used 5 circuits on my 600 gallon. One was for my window AC unit that cools the fish room. So really four for the tank equipment. Which was overkill but leaves me room for expansion to my system if need be.

 

[LOTUS50GOD]

I have 3x20amp GFi's with 2 plugs on each leg.

I have an Aquacontroller that has 8 plugs to be controlled.
I have 3 DC8's and each DC8 is plugged into a GFI.

 

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13558798#post13558798 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 46bfinGA
But it really all depends on how much space you have in your panel.

Oh damn, great point! I barely looked at the thing the other day - I hope there is still room. I'm sure that would add a ton (of $) if I needed an extra box too!

Thanks for replies thus far :thumbsup:, and I'll check out the box when I get home.

 

[stunreefer]

Well crap... I looked at the box and I think there are only two free breakers. One isn't labled at all, and the other is for a random room that there is nothing in (a closet basically), out of 30 total breakers.

I'm thinking it might be cheaper to have them add a box over dig through all the wires in the existing box (labor time) - then again I know nothing about electrical boxes.

 

[wmilas]

I have 4 20 amp lines for my system. You might want to consider using GFI breakers directly. That way you don't have to have gfi boxes everywhere (saves some money).

 

[46bfinGA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13561197#post13561197 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stunreefer
Well crap... I looked at the box and I think there are only two free breakers. One isn't labled at all, and the other is for a random room that there is nothing in (a closet basically), out of 30 total breakers.

I'm thinking it might be cheaper to have them add a box over dig through all the wires in the existing box (labor time) - then again I know nothing about electrical boxes.

You could use two 20 amp Tandem breakers to make four total if you want to. Save you some money unless you just need a Subpanel for something else. Then you could just run two 12/3 Romex's over to your tank.

 

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13561306#post13561306 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wmilas
You might want to consider using GFI breakers directly. That way you don't have to have gfi boxes everywhere (saves some money).

Thats what was installed last time... the electrician thought it would be nice so I didn't have to reach behind the tank if they popped (so true), however he said it was more expensive than a 2 outlet GFI box.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13561410#post13561410 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 46bfinGA
You could use two 20 amp Tandem breakers to make four total if you want to. Save you some money unless you just need a Subpanel for something else. Then you could just run two 12/3 Romex's over to your tank.

I'm taking notes to pass on, but I dont speak electrician man! That all went whoosh... right over my head :lol:

I think I know what you mean by tandem breaker though...there was one accidently installed last time. Its where there is a bar over the breakers "switches" that connects two breakers "switches" right?

 

[46bfinGA]

I disagree on the GFI Breakers,they are more expensive then the Receptacles. You can buy 3 packs of GFI's at HD for $30.

 

[bullitr]

i am adding additional to dedicated lines this weekend. 20 amps each .one for the lights and one for the chiller and fans.

 

[mm949]

i would also recommend individual GFI outlets.....this way one trip wont shut fown the whole system
the number of circuits and outlets depends on demand and distance from service panel....example my 1350gl has 3 20a breakers with 3-4way boxes all individual gfi's....since the tank is 70ft from the panel i can only run 10amp each with 20% left available
good luck

 

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13564151#post13564151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mm949
i would also recommend individual GFI outlets.....this way one trip wont shut fown the whole system
the number of circuits and outlets depends on demand and distance from service panel....

Thats one thing I didn't like about the "tandem" breaker accidently installed last time...if one GFI tripped, the "bar" connecting the two would trip the other breaker as well...I might as well only had 2 lines run. I was a little upset when I saw it, but it doesn't matter anymore. I dont even live there now.

Thanks again for all the input thus far. I'm prinitng this (thread) off, along with a couple email recommendations to hand the electrician when they come over next week some time.

Keep the comments, suggestions, etc. coming!

TIA!

 

[wmilas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13561442#post13561442 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 46bfinGA
I disagree on the GFI Breakers,they are more expensive then the Receptacles. You can buy 3 packs of GFI's at HD for $30.

Well I have outlets ALL over my fishroom for ease of use. GFI breakers cost me 30ish each at Menards and were a lot easer to wire. I also thought that a central location to reset breakers would be nice, instead of reaching behind equipment, ect.

As far as tripping, I have 4 circuits. Realistically when you use an automated system you are going to be using a controller hoked up to a servo switch electrical box connected directly to your controller (Neptune, Reefkeeper, ect). So whats going to happen is you are going to lose power on a gfi receptical and take multiple devices out anyways because the whole servo box is going to go out. I'm using servo boxes on multiple circuits to minimize the failure. I'll plug in stuff manually on different stuff around the room for odds and ends that I manually control.

If you are going to use a DJ-style manual system you could, in theory, have every switch on its own GFI. The problem is that you are looking at alot of cost for the outlets and alot of wall space. At some point there has to be a compromise between how many items are on each gfi circuit and useability.

 

[46bfinGA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13564353#post13564353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wmilas
Well I have outlets ALL over my fishroom for ease of use. GFI breakers cost me 30ish each at Menards and were a lot easer to wire. I also thought that a central location to reset breakers would be nice, instead of reaching behind equipment, ect.

We all have our own way of doing things, and yours works well for you. Hopefully once your tank is running you wont have any issues with the way yours is setup.
Only problem I have with the breakers is,which was mentioned earlier, the fact that if you have an issue with one outlet then all of the oultets connected in series will trip as well.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13564353#post13564353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wmilas

As far as tripping, I have 4 circuits. Realistically when you use an automated system you are going to be using a controller hoked up to a servo switch electrical box connected directly to your controller (Neptune, Reefkeeper, ect). So whats going to happen is you are going to lose power on a gfi receptical and take multiple devices out anyways because the whole servo box is going to go out. I'm using servo boxes on multiple circuits to minimize the failure. I'll plug in stuff manually on different stuff around the room for odds and ends that I manually control.

I use an AC3 as well. I use seperate DC8's for each individual circuit. Your right, you will lose devices when using the DC8's to control lights/pumps/etc.... when plugged into the outlet. But what if you have more then one outlet on yoru circuit? Then you lose everything down the line. I am guessing yours is not setup that way and you have just a single outlet for each DC8/4 on your controller. Then that $10 GFI would in fact be cheaper then a $30 breaker. Which is a moot point I guess, since your going to spend the moeny one way or another. These tanks don't come cheap.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13564353#post13564353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wmilas

If you are going to use a DJ-style manual system you could, in theory, have every switch on its own GFI. The problem is that you are looking at alot of cost for the outlets and alot of wall space. At some point there has to be a compromise between how many items are on each gfi circuit and useability.

Fair enough. I think the important thing is to plan your system to where you have 2-3 dedicated outlets for your tank Equip. ,then an additional circuit to spread out across the room for future use. That is if you have a fish room where you need to do that. In this case he is looking for outlets to put just behind his tank.

 

[46bfinGA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13564186#post13564186 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stunreefer
Thats one thing I didn't like about the "tandem" breaker accidently installed last time...if one GFI tripped, the "bar" connecting the two would trip the other breaker as well...I might as well only had 2 lines run. I was a little upset when I saw it, but it doesn't matter anymore. I dont even live there now.

Thanks again for all the input thus far. I'm prinitng this (thread) off, along with a couple email recommendations to hand the electrician when they come over next week some time.

Keep the comments, suggestions, etc. coming!

TIA!

A tandem breaker has two seperate breakers that are controlled from one phase in your panel. They should not trip at the same time if only one is effected by a short. You must be referring to a double pole breaker which has a metal bar attached to both handles. That is not the type of breaker I was referring to. Your electrician will know what you need.

 

[Reefer Brian]

To be on the safe side call an electrician.

 

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13568304#post13568304 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 46bfinGA
You must be referring to a double pole breaker which has a metal bar attached to both handles.

Yep, thats the one I had at the last place.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13569372#post13569372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer Brian
To be on the safe side call an electrician.

Thats the plan for sure. Last time the electrician seemed a bit lost when I was telling him what I wanted. He even didnt install GFIs the first time he came over, even though that was the main reason for the install

This time I want to make sure I know exactly what I need, and hopefully keep costs to a minimum. This is the kind of thing I hate putting a bunch of $ into, and I always low-ball the cost when I'm budgeting out a tank. But, its worth it and necessary so its gotta be done.


Thanks again for all the input!