jeff@zina.com
New member
Was your wiring up to it? If you simply swapped a 30A breaker for a 15A one, you're probably going to void your homeowner's insurance and they won't pay for the fire damage...
Jeff
Electrical
- Thread starter lokian
- Start date
Was your wiring up to it? If you simply swapped a 30A breaker for a 15A one, you're probably going to void your homeowner's insurance and they won't pay for the fire damage...
Jeff
Yeah def not going to just swap breakers.... i'm now calling local departments and insurance to see if the plan i have to run the cable from inside to outside to inside again will void anything or cause and problems...
i want to run it from the wall thru a stud to the outside... then run it underneath the siding to a point where i can enter my garage and run it along the ceiling in there with some conduit to the breaker box... adding 2 x 20amp circuits...
i want to make sure this is legal... as i dont want the insurance company to be able to say no to any claims.
i want to run it from the wall thru a stud to the outside... then run it underneath the siding to a point where i can enter my garage and run it along the ceiling in there with some conduit to the breaker box... adding 2 x 20amp circuits...
i want to make sure this is legal... as i dont want the insurance company to be able to say no to any claims.
gweston
New member
Running higher amps on the wrong wire gauge can be very dangerous. The wire will run hot as it can't carry the load. Serious fire hazard. Its not if it will fry.. it is a matter of when if will fry.
In general:
Breaker(amp) - Wire Gauge - General Application.
15 14 General household
20 12 Kitchen, small appliances
30 10 Water heaters.
40 8 Electric clothes dryers
50 6 Electric ranges.
In general:
Breaker(amp) - Wire Gauge - General Application.
15 14 General household
20 12 Kitchen, small appliances
30 10 Water heaters.
40 8 Electric clothes dryers
50 6 Electric ranges.
theatrus
100-mile-commuter
Never ever do that. Everything in the path needs to be rated for 30A: Wire, outlets (they're part of the conductor, even the ones you're not using), switches (if you have lights on the circuit). You've basically defeated the one safety feature which prevents the wire in the wall from bursting into flames when it overheats.
jeff@zina.com
New member
As far as electrical code goes, this is legal (and common in many areas). You'll likely need to pull through a conduit, but there are probably quite a few jurisdictions that would allow UGF cable in this manner.
Jeff
Rockhead21564
Member
Sorry, guess I should've qualified that with "I built the house and over did everything, including wiring" statement. Sorry. I wired when building for serious "anything" that comes about situation. I'd wonder if this might also be the case here. Most builders in the area here use larger than needed for everything. Something to look at.
mcgyvr
New member
The breakers need to be GFCI type for all outdoor wiring by code now, not to mention the aquarium is much safer with one...
I'd mount a junction box inside then a short piece of conduit to go through the hole in the walls with an LB fitting screwed into that on the outside.. Then run/bury your pvc conduit. and repeat on the other end where it re-enters the house.
I'd mount a junction box inside then a short piece of conduit to go through the hole in the walls with an LB fitting screwed into that on the outside.. Then run/bury your pvc conduit. and repeat on the other end where it re-enters the house.
Call and electrician, it will be cheaper, they will have a look and do it the easiest way.
Your panel should have extra room for at least 2 breakers unless something else has been added already. A small sub panel is pretty cheap though. Hard to really say without seeing though. Cheap is subjective though, but I am keeping the costs of a reef tank in mind when saying that.
No, do not do this.
Insurance company is not the right people to call, they do not have the knowledge to know if something is to code or not. And as long as its to code they can not really say anything.
City will want a permit, but they don't care as long as its to code either. Home owner permit is like 100 bucks in most places. Electrical Contractors can pull permits cheaper.
Who are you? There are many legal ways to do what he wants.
Again who are you? First year Electrician? Starter?
Fuses and breakers are not the same and should be ran for what they are rated for at their rated usage.
You can get 15 amp continuous load breakers.
I will bet my pay cheque that the home builder absolutely did not run any wire larger then code, unless spec'ed by the home owner, and from the OP I would bet another pay cheque was not the case.
I also SERIOUSLY doubt you ran #10 branch circuits throughout your house, you would double the cost of your wire and then you would be outside the spec of wire size on all your devices unless you spliced a 12 or 14 before devices. And then if you put a 30 amp breaker on the line you would need to have 30 amp rated devices on that entire circuit. There is really now way you could switch out a breaker for a 30 amp and have it run your tank in code unless you are running a 30 amp sub in your stand or something, but that is not logical.
Are you in a trade? Why is there so much bad information in this thread?
What are you jibbering about? code reference for a wire outside with no devices outside needing to be GFI?
GFI receptacles are much cheaper then a GFI breaker. And easier to reset most of the time. GFI breakers are less prone to nuisance tripping. I would run power heads off one GFI receptacle and return pump/heater(s) off another, lights and the like off a normal receptacle. Or return and one power head on one and the other power heads and heaters on another.
Sometimes its easier to run under the baseboards.
Your panel should have extra room for at least 2 breakers unless something else has been added already. A small sub panel is pretty cheap though. Hard to really say without seeing though. Cheap is subjective though, but I am keeping the costs of a reef tank in mind when saying that.
No, do not do this.
Insurance company is not the right people to call, they do not have the knowledge to know if something is to code or not. And as long as its to code they can not really say anything.
City will want a permit, but they don't care as long as its to code either. Home owner permit is like 100 bucks in most places. Electrical Contractors can pull permits cheaper.
Who are you? There are many legal ways to do what he wants.
Again who are you? First year Electrician? Starter?
Fuses and breakers are not the same and should be ran for what they are rated for at their rated usage.
You can get 15 amp continuous load breakers.
I will bet my pay cheque that the home builder absolutely did not run any wire larger then code, unless spec'ed by the home owner, and from the OP I would bet another pay cheque was not the case.
I also SERIOUSLY doubt you ran #10 branch circuits throughout your house, you would double the cost of your wire and then you would be outside the spec of wire size on all your devices unless you spliced a 12 or 14 before devices. And then if you put a 30 amp breaker on the line you would need to have 30 amp rated devices on that entire circuit. There is really now way you could switch out a breaker for a 30 amp and have it run your tank in code unless you are running a 30 amp sub in your stand or something, but that is not logical.
Are you in a trade? Why is there so much bad information in this thread?
What are you jibbering about? code reference for a wire outside with no devices outside needing to be GFI?
GFI receptacles are much cheaper then a GFI breaker. And easier to reset most of the time. GFI breakers are less prone to nuisance tripping. I would run power heads off one GFI receptacle and return pump/heater(s) off another, lights and the like off a normal receptacle. Or return and one power head on one and the other power heads and heaters on another.
Sometimes its easier to run under the baseboards.
Jeff is correct on all accounts and if you are going to run the wattage you are talking about I would definitely go with 2x 20A circuits. You said there were no blank spaces in your panel. On a new house that's hard to believe but if it's true that could be a problem for you. The electrician would need to really look at your load distribution per leg and see if you could free up a position and since you are running a new circuit and wire it is possible to use a higher rated breaker in that position and sub it down later. Two new complete circuits would definitely be preferable though. Depending on what you have in your house that may not be possible. But don't try and run all of that stuff plus a 50" plasma tv etc on a 15A circuit. It's not going to happen.
Running a circuit through the wall outside and back no is problem at all as long as it done properly.
Running a circuit through the wall outside and back no is problem at all as long as it done properly.
Rancherlee
New member
You would be surprised on the small panels I've seen in newer houses lately. If you panel is truly full most manufactures have double breakers available in the 15 and 20amp sizes that allow 2 15 or 20amp circuits per slot, or even a combo of the 2. I know Square D and Cutler do for sure as I've had to use both on my own house and garage.
yeah i have a couple of the double breakers and then some single 15 and 20 amps next to each other... im thinking the breaker panel is not going to be an issue... but im going to get the needed info from a pro on monday... and hopefully the cost is not too bad and i can have them do it for me..
mcgyvr
New member
Running wiring outside and then just sticking it under the siding is NOT legal.. He has already been told that he should get a qualified electrician...
I am me...
MOST of the breakers and fuses in the world are meant to be continuously run at 80% of their rating.. Yes there are some 100% rated breakers but those are typically not for residential use and are rarely ever specified or used. So I didn't feel the need to discuss those.And I wouldn't ever run wiring outside or aquarium circuits (receptables there or not) without GFI protection of some sort.
Paul B
Premium Member
I am also an electrician, 40 years in the business in Manhattan. There are ways to do it without doing hardly any damage to the building but thats if you can find the right guy. But if it helps, I have been running my 100 gallon reef for almost 40 years on one 15 amp breaker that also has much of the rest of my house on. I don't think I ever tripped that circuit unless we plugged in a heater or some other stupid thing that was not supposed to be plugged into a circuit like that. But if you plug something in like that, you would be home. I do not run a chiller as that would overload that circuit
So to answer your question, yes you can safely run that tank on that circuit but yes, it is better to have another seperate circuit.
If you go with the existing circuit plug the various devices into at least two seperate GFCI's coming off of that receptacle. You can buy GFCI's on very short (24") extention cords.
So to answer your question, yes you can safely run that tank on that circuit but yes, it is better to have another seperate circuit.
If you go with the existing circuit plug the various devices into at least two seperate GFCI's coming off of that receptacle. You can buy GFCI's on very short (24") extention cords.
OMG DONT DO THAT!!!!!!! u will melt the wire and cause a fire. :uzi::furious:
Ya without pic's of your panel and being able to walk your house and see what options are available its hard to say what you should do. Let us know what the electrician says. He might try to talk you into a bigger panel but just tell him that if you need more spaces in the panel use the same size main just more spaces. The 100amp panels (assuming this is what you have in your house) can be bought with 42 spaces. I am guessing you have 24 space. Just dont let him talk you into a 200 amp panel etc.
gweston
New member
I'm in process of putting in a man-cave space (finished basement) with a fish room. It'll have 2x 20amp circuits with outlets shared between where the display is and the fishroom on the other side.
A 20amp circuit can handle a heck of a lot. I'd probably be fine with one.. but I wanted to have options. Plus being new construction, better to overdo it from the start.
Yeah a 200 amp panel is overkill... my house has one (came that way)... but, the house was originally wired for electric baseboard heat along with electrical major appliances. Hot water heater. Stove, etc.
The stove is now gas, the heating system and hot water are no longer electric.. so the electricity demands are far lower now. Well.. until I get my big tank in LOL.
A 20amp circuit can handle a heck of a lot. I'd probably be fine with one.. but I wanted to have options. Plus being new construction, better to overdo it from the start.
Yeah a 200 amp panel is overkill... my house has one (came that way)... but, the house was originally wired for electric baseboard heat along with electrical major appliances. Hot water heater. Stove, etc.
The stove is now gas, the heating system and hot water are no longer electric.. so the electricity demands are far lower now. Well.. until I get my big tank in LOL.
