Electricians or Handyman?
- Thread starter eidillitih
- Start date
I geuss we are lucky, here we have BChydro a government company, that does all the pole connections. Most houses around here that are getting service changes are at the age that they no longer meet code, so we most of the time have to install new masts right up through a new meter base and panel. Hydro has also specified that all new meters must be facing forward, so if the old panel is in the back that means a nice old fat pipe along their house, or a buried teck.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I did not need an electrical permit in my town. This was a "service panel upgrade" to start with. I am not a licensed electrician but can easily demonstrate that I know more than the average sparky running around this city. I did however get the new panel inspected so that if I sell the house, there is never a question. That is one of the first things those moronic home inspectors look for (an inspection sticker on the electrical panel).
Permits: Dont get me started.
The only time I would ever seek a permit would be for commercial work or when required for new construction. In other words if I were putting an addition on and they made me get an electrical permit with the building permit.. then I would. It does not matter who does the work, as long as it passes the inspection. Let me be clear, if they do not ask for a permit, I am not wasting my time and money getting and fullfing one! I would never seek a permit to add a branch circuit or similar.
When I did the new panel, the inspector showed up to check the work. I asked him to make a second visit during the wiring project. He was very happy with the quality if the work and had no problem putting the sticker on the box.
I just gutted and remodled a bathroom. I have moved all of the electric, plumbing and had to do some framing. The house is a 1950's house. If I would have went and asked for permits, they would have cost a fortune. I would have had to pay for
1) a building permit complete with plumbing, electrical and framing plans.
2) I would have been forced to check for asbestos and lead paint and pay for abatement if it was found (upwards of $15,000 if found).
3) I would have had to schedule and pay for contruction, electrical and plumbing inspections.
4) The building permits would then trigger the county tax assesment office to send out an apraiser to revalue my house and increase my taxes.
I have $5,000 in materials and my own priceless labor. The same project would have cost me $6,000 to god knows how much if I went through town hall. That is without even getting into the whole property tax issues and the tme I would have to spend fighting the new assesment. Property taxes in Pennsylvania are already way too high.
Lets not even get into the new uniform building codes and the utter stupidity that they saddle us all with.
NO THANKS!
Bean
Permits: Dont get me started.
The only time I would ever seek a permit would be for commercial work or when required for new construction. In other words if I were putting an addition on and they made me get an electrical permit with the building permit.. then I would. It does not matter who does the work, as long as it passes the inspection. Let me be clear, if they do not ask for a permit, I am not wasting my time and money getting and fullfing one! I would never seek a permit to add a branch circuit or similar.
When I did the new panel, the inspector showed up to check the work. I asked him to make a second visit during the wiring project. He was very happy with the quality if the work and had no problem putting the sticker on the box.
I just gutted and remodled a bathroom. I have moved all of the electric, plumbing and had to do some framing. The house is a 1950's house. If I would have went and asked for permits, they would have cost a fortune. I would have had to pay for
1) a building permit complete with plumbing, electrical and framing plans.
2) I would have been forced to check for asbestos and lead paint and pay for abatement if it was found (upwards of $15,000 if found).
3) I would have had to schedule and pay for contruction, electrical and plumbing inspections.
4) The building permits would then trigger the county tax assesment office to send out an apraiser to revalue my house and increase my taxes.
I have $5,000 in materials and my own priceless labor. The same project would have cost me $6,000 to god knows how much if I went through town hall. That is without even getting into the whole property tax issues and the tme I would have to spend fighting the new assesment. Property taxes in Pennsylvania are already way too high.
Lets not even get into the new uniform building codes and the utter stupidity that they saddle us all with.
NO THANKS!
Bean
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Non-union residential anywhere from $40-$75. Union rates are somewhere around $70 for the journeyman and $55 for the aprentices I think. (reuired at least one jounreyman on site).
A typical service panel upgrade in Pittsburgh or surrounding areas is $1000. That only inlcudes removing the old panel and flopping the wires in the new panel. Calling a guy out to get get a branch circuit pulled in costs $250-$350. A sub panel $600 or so, plus the branch circuits. Most guys charge EXTRA for pain in the *** fishes.
My rewire project would have easily cost $10,000 or more +materials. Most guys will not use YOUR materials, they supply them and mark them up substantially. If you don't want to use their materials, they will run the labor bill up on you claiming you did not buy the correct stuff.
With the sub panels, trench and power to my shed and hot tub... it would be closer to $20,000. Remember there are over 50 branch cicuits pulled in and 4 sub panels (Shed, Kitchen, Fishroom, Spa)
I have a little over $1500 in the project. I use only #12 or larger and only commercial grade receptacles and switches. I would have had to fight an electrical contractor daily trying to explain why I did not want any #14 anywhere and why I only wanted commercial grade or better wiring devices. I would have had to fight daily to explain why I wanted every room on it's own circuit with many rooms have (2) general circuits. I would have had to explain over and over why I wanted just about everything on a dedicated circuit, with (3) in my computer room, (3) in my home theater. Seperate lighting circuits for the different rooms... etc etc etc. Much easier just to do it the way I wanted.
Bean
A typical service panel upgrade in Pittsburgh or surrounding areas is $1000. That only inlcudes removing the old panel and flopping the wires in the new panel. Calling a guy out to get get a branch circuit pulled in costs $250-$350. A sub panel $600 or so, plus the branch circuits. Most guys charge EXTRA for pain in the *** fishes.
My rewire project would have easily cost $10,000 or more +materials. Most guys will not use YOUR materials, they supply them and mark them up substantially. If you don't want to use their materials, they will run the labor bill up on you claiming you did not buy the correct stuff.
With the sub panels, trench and power to my shed and hot tub... it would be closer to $20,000. Remember there are over 50 branch cicuits pulled in and 4 sub panels (Shed, Kitchen, Fishroom, Spa)
I have a little over $1500 in the project. I use only #12 or larger and only commercial grade receptacles and switches. I would have had to fight an electrical contractor daily trying to explain why I did not want any #14 anywhere and why I only wanted commercial grade or better wiring devices. I would have had to fight daily to explain why I wanted every room on it's own circuit with many rooms have (2) general circuits. I would have had to explain over and over why I wanted just about everything on a dedicated circuit, with (3) in my computer room, (3) in my home theater. Seperate lighting circuits for the different rooms... etc etc etc. Much easier just to do it the way I wanted.
Bean
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
BTW her brother and father are both journeyman union electricians that do BIG commercial work. So much for the help though... they only do electrical work when they are AT WORK 
Bean
Bean
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I honestly don't think the father in law has ever even looked at the electrical work in this house. He knows that I am qaulified to do the work and he knows that I do not cut corners... Also, if he does not comment, then he does not have to help
A lot of the union guys are layed off... the union has priced themsevles out of the market. The non union guys are doing ok.
Bean
A lot of the union guys are layed off... the union has priced themsevles out of the market. The non union guys are doing ok.
Bean
dngspot
Premium Member
I work in the service industry. Some of the equipment I work on are large power generation systems. If I had to belong to a union I would move to a right to work state, Kansas is one. I refuse to give 20 dollars a month to a group that serves me no purpose. Been there, done that. My father in law is an electrician, retired.
eidillitih
Premium Member
Well guys, I went ahead and did it. I added a designated circuit to my power panel for my reef tank. After the circuit trip twice because of too much power, I decided to just do it. Took me about an hour but everything seems to be good right now. My next step is to build a complete power center. Thanks you guys for you help and words of wisdom
sulcata1619
New member
Good Job eidilitih.
BruiseAndy
New member
Ya those silly unions asking that tradesmen are fairly compensated, and fairly treated. Right to work states average 15% lower wages, sign me up.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
But hey you did not mention that they also ask that 1/3 of them can sleep and not get fired while still being compensated and the other 2/3 do 3/3 of the work. So yeah the wages are higher, but so are the taxes and cost of goods to pay for those wages.
Before I get flamed. I spent around 15 years in the coal mines and grew up in Pennsylvania. It does not get much more pro union than this place (well the whole rust belt).
Anyway congrats on the new branch circuit. Glad you got it done safely.
Before I get flamed. I spent around 15 years in the coal mines and grew up in Pennsylvania. It does not get much more pro union than this place (well the whole rust belt).
Anyway congrats on the new branch circuit. Glad you got it done safely.
Boy having a career as an electrician really changes your outlook on things. Seeing some of the questions that are being asked really worries me. I can just imagine some of the code violations that could occur here. I would suggest someone who is eithier more familiar with codes or is an electrician to handle this job for you. There are a lot of ways to make electricity work bit there is generally onle one way to make it work safe. From what i have read this is all good advise but I worry about how things can be mis read. For example before i was an electrician i wired my father in laws shed with him. When it was done everything worked and we thought we did a good job. Now i look at it and am uncomfortable plugging things in.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
The guy who DIYed parts of our house (the previous owner) must have went to the same school... I have found electrical tape splices in walls... (No Jbox, No wire nuts.... just tape) etc.
Anway chris... at least the guy asked and has tried to follow advice (a lot of it very good), which is a lot more than most DIY electricians do. The way I see it folks that ask are going try it no matter what... so the best bet is to try and give the good answers and warn them of the risks. You will notice I always tell them to get a good book and find a friend that knows what they are doing.
Anway chris... at least the guy asked and has tried to follow advice (a lot of it very good), which is a lot more than most DIY electricians do. The way I see it folks that ask are going try it no matter what... so the best bet is to try and give the good answers and warn them of the risks. You will notice I always tell them to get a good book and find a friend that knows what they are doing.
eidillitih
Premium Member
Thanks, I read that book. I read that book from home depot. But it really wasn't that hard. I read tha warning you guys gave and tips, followed them and not too tough.
Some people have an aptitude for computer programming and some for rocket science. And some just have common sense for working. Knowing how things work can help you figure out how to DIY without hurting anyone or anything. We are all left with that decision and no one else.
I believe that codes are written by the eccentric and while they help keep us safe it doesn't mean that by not hitting the code on the head on every item will make us unsafe.
There has been many construction projects that I have seen that the letter of the code has not been followed because it wasn't necessary or didn't fit the situation and they stand today as safe and reliable as the next.
I believe that codes are written by the eccentric and while they help keep us safe it doesn't mean that by not hitting the code on the head on every item will make us unsafe.
There has been many construction projects that I have seen that the letter of the code has not been followed because it wasn't necessary or didn't fit the situation and they stand today as safe and reliable as the next.
douggiestyle
New member
did you disconnect the power, or shut off the main?
