Emergency

This whole problem started in the 55 I was talking about...when i introed a lion then a moorish idol...but ireally feel that there is something in the rock or sand now..that is the cause of this to the fish..cause softies are melting away in the DT tank they came from..which has a bit of that sand and some of that rock?...Thank you for the detail fish disease treatment..but am a bit lost..I have to read it several times to see what to do now..Running out of tanks
 
Well there are no lesions...so I guess I should start there....So should I hypo the hospital tank they are in(has cupramine in it) and then go from there
 
There is nothing i'm aware of that will affect both fish and corals. I will say however that leathers can be extremely toxic to fish and anything else in the tank when they melt. That could have been the turning point for your fishs' immune system.

If you are able to quarrantine and treat all the fish in that system in a separate QT for about 50-60 days, I have every confidence that the disease will be gone from the tank with the corals. These diseases need a host to survive more than about a month generally.
 
If those two fish were mine I would have them in hypo already doing formalin dips and cuppramine baths as described. They're icky and slimy. The more I look at them the more I think its a combination of diseases.
 
Man I feel stupid and helpless..i have doing this 2 years and am at a loss here...thanks for helping...I started hypo and then after more consideration I stopped and hospitalized them, treating with cupramine....and .it all stated In the 55 lion got it..idol got it..then the idol died and was in the tank for 2 days before i got it out,,then the lion died then the bubble coral melted away and then the toadstool ..then the rest..pom poms. GSP..a green nepthia........So is it ok to hypo the cupramine treated tank?
 
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I knew i shouldnt have use ANYTHING from the 55..but I did...what a mistake that was..newbie:hmm4:...
So now the 40 i moved the clowns too has diseased rock and substrate from the 55 and thats what started it all with these clowns right?...so when I get them treated ..the DT tank is fallow for months and I lose what I lose and pulling the dead out..the parasetic bactrias in it will die off or become dormant no? and I can inrtroduce them again..
 
I see his poop is white and streaming behind him..that means it is internal right...
OK so Lets see if this makes sense...I think...that the lion got sick getting the idol sick..ick...they died..the idol being in the tank for 2 days before taking it out..fouled the water to where the bubble coral died and was just too much for the toadstool and when that began to melt...poision the whole tank and parasite grew with that bacteria in the tank and went after the fish...and became and internal bacterial infection from breathing the water that the poisoned sand and rock was in???? what do you think?? if that seem the likely culprate....now I can treat everything accordingly to that theory...
 
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I see his poop is white and streaming behind him..that means it is internal right...
So ....a break down...after the lion and idol died....things started melting...when it got to the toadstool...that turned the tank toxic..and toxic bacterias were in full bloom and parasites came next feeding off the bacterias and then to the fish and went inside the fisha swell and started to grow and the outside of the fish became visible too...so the parasites are in the body.gills etc...thats why it will be tough to get rid of and why they breath so heavily...so the hypo will burst..sort of speak...the parasites.."ick" ..on the outside..and the formalin dips will help kill the bacteria or parasites in side and when set into a quarentine of cupramine...finishes the job..by them breathing that in..and repeat dips and holding in cupramine to insure death of the reproducing parasites and bacteria.....till all gone...then supervise to see if anything tries to come back...
basically woth the polutants of dead fish and ick present..when that toad stool died...that was it..I had a BIG PROBLEM>>>>
 
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well after going through a hypo to 1.009 ..fully..the clowns now have about 90% of the visible parasites gone..I even feel like the larger one will eat today..they still swim like to scratch something off but..90% better from last night...
 
Ummmm... not exactly....

If I were to wager a guess, after the lion and idol died you may have had an ammonia spike. That might be enough to kill some corals. OR your corals were sick and releasing toxins into the tank already which killed the first two fish. The idol would be the least hardy. The lion would be second least hardy.
The corals don't release bacteria when they're dieing or stressed, they release toxins. The toxins are at least powerful enough to stress a fish so that it's immune system is weakened. At the most it can be powerful enough to kill a fish by itself.
It's hard to say looking through the computer screen what exactly happened first second etc. The only thing I'm pretty confident about is that a pathogen made its way into your system because you did not properly quarrantine your fish. You might get away with this for years before it bites you. You simply got unlucky early. At this point the best thing you can do is to properly treat any vertebrate fishes in the system in a quarrantine tank and leave them in that system for one month beyond the last symptom of disease.
One thing you will notice is that with ick in particular, the paracites will appear to be better in the morning and even worse in the afternoon. The paracites hatch at night and release thousands more. Throughout the day the babies reinfect the fish and the cycle continues. That is why you want to swap tanks once a day. Preferably in the morning before the paracites have a chance to reattach.

I'm glad to hear they look better after the hypo. Keep up on the regamin and I'm confident that they will continue to improve.

Just make sure that no water or wet objects from the DT goes into the QT or vice versa. If this happens you have re-contaminated the receiving tank.
 
One other thing I'd like to see you do. Calm down and think rationally. I know you're freaked about your fish but you will be far better served if you sit down and adopt a plan and follow that plan to conclusion. Changing your mind mid treatment and going a whole other direction is the worst thing you can possibly do.... short of doing nothing of course.
 
I was to lazy to read the entire thread but if you just can't take any sort of chance with these clowns. I've saw one go for $600 at about 1/2" once. If you haven't already, set up another tank with the water from your display tank, then move BOTH of the clowns into it and dose copper. Copper will kill about anything except for the fish, which is why most LFS dose copper in all of their tank with fish only. It will kill the parasite. The reason you don't want to dose copper into the main tank is because it kills corals and coraline algae and all that, and you won't be able to keep corals ever again. This should take care of the ick and anything else, but just to be safe, I would like somebody to agree with my opinion before you do it.
 
I wasn't thinking of ammonia and stuff cause the water was tested and a water change and then fresh water when i was going to hypo that DT tank with the clowns in it...anyway..So i am led to believe that the lion was the culprate..he never really looked happy always sad and lathargic then I put the idol in after a few days that was very healthy..in my main display and picked on hte lion.....anyway...I am calm now:spin2:..and have a plan...do to the treatment you posted...and thanks for clarifying why we next second tanks while treating...As far as putting him into a tank with the DT water and treat with copper....why would I put them back into contaminated water and then treat with copper when the hypo is working then i will treat with cupramine and dips...without using the DT water all...I will just leave the DT fallow for 2 months to ensure that the pathogens,bacterias and ick all have gone..so I can re-introduce them..

PS..i know $$$$ ..I paid $400 for my pair got lucky..were very perfect and healthy whe I got them and 1 was an inch and the other an inch and a half
 
Ok well...a quick update..sorry about before just trying to figure out the whole science if it and EXACTLY where the problem was..but ...anyway..so the hypo went well clowns look good and are in a cupramine bath...and they BOTH are eating and very active and normal swimming behavior..
 
I'm just glad their both still alive, must have been prayer! Who would have ever thought we could get attached to fish... BTW- I all in on using a QT tank from now on, thanks to this thread. Used to just dump em in. Bill
 
It took a lot of money and a few irreplaceable fish dieing for me to start quarrantining fish. Now I advocate it heavily... perhaps sometimes to a fault.
 
Was talking to charlie today...thanks for all the help Walt and everyone else..I am confident they will make a full recovery...
 
well..they are looking 100% again..with the exception of the coloration of the fins...do you think the pigmentaion of black and orange will ever come back to its original colors over time?..They are a bit bleached looking.
 
Glad to hear it! I have no doubt the coloration will return in time. If it comes back after fin nips, it will return after a brief illness.

Just make sure you follow your treatment plan to completion so it doesn't return.

EDIT: Post some pics!
 
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