Emergency

[bues0022]

my major point is that he keeps saying he's worried about the TANK...it's not hte tank...

he ASKS for help then adds two more fish anyways...sounds like a person that shouldn't be taking care of animals...

I've only skimmed the main points of this thread, so forgive me if I don't know all the details. I think sometimes it's really easy for those of us that know exactly what to do to be overly critical when someone makes mistakes on seemingly obvious points. He's here asking questions, looking for advice, and trusting us to help him out.

Did he buy a crazy expensive pair of fish that are (in many people's opinions) not suitable for his skills? Perhaps, but what makes one worthy of owning a particular fish? Money? Experience? There are many with experience without the money for these fish. There are also those that have the money but not experience. Just because this seems to be the later doesn't mean he's any less of a person.

When he references the tank is he actually meaning "the tank" or using "the tank" as a way to describe the tank and all current and future inhabitants and their health?

Let's help him out, stay positive, and not be so critical when he doesn't follow through fully to the letter.

 

[Toddrtrex]

.............

Let's help him out, stay positive, and not be so critical when he doesn't follow through fully to the letter.

Please, heed this advice.

 

[WDLV]

my major point is that he keeps saying he's worried about the TANK...it's not hte tank...

he ASKS for help then adds two more fish anyways...sounds like a person that shouldn't be taking care of animals...

Ya know, I'm not sure I've met anyone in the hobby who has never rushed something along. It's bloody boring staring at an empty tank. Compound the natural natural human tendancy to want to see some fruit of your labor with the confusion that arises when you hear a myriad of different opinions telling you what potential malady your fish have and a number of differing opinions on how to treat it if only you happen to diagnose it properly. Let's not forget that you're freaking out at the same time because your new prized fish are sick.

The only thing he's guilty of is not having consistant information. Most people in this hobby do not quarrantine. They have neither the knowledge of how to do it nor the understanding of how important it is.... or why you're supposed to do it for the recommended duration. 90 days is the professional standard, but I have found that 60 works well too because it exceeds the life span of most paracites we deal with.

Most people with any level of experience will only display the best possible view of their success. It's usually the newbies who are posting help threads. Don't think that the TOTM reefkeepers don't also have failures they'd be hesitant to broadcast in public.

There is an arrogance that comes with having a great looking reef that seems to prevent many people from posting the human errors that occur from time to time. Failures are where other reefers will learn the most. If every one out there looked like the Golden Child, we wouldn't have much need for a forum.

The point is lighten up. Nobody's perfect.

 

[astranotus]

Wow..didn't mean to stir up so much and get off track of the out come of my clowns"the subject at hand" So I will just post a quick thing about my "QUALIFICATION OF BEING IN THIS HOBBY"..Hi my name is Rich and i am an addict..lol..anyway,,I have been in the hobby for about 2 1/2 yrs. I read everything I could for three months before starting my 1st tank..a 20l..then went to a 40breeder..then bought 3 of them..then upgraded to a 75.. and then bought a 2nd on of those..then a deal for a 275 fell in my lap..I took it..so now "MY MAIN TANK" is a 275 mixed reef w/ a 75 refugium/sump"..here is a link of this thread on a local club i belong to..I belong to 5 of them..http://www.clubswam.org/forum/index.php?topic=2695.0 For those that care to see my work...Wehn i say I am a newbie is because i made a newbie mistake..when the 55 crashed...I left an empty tank..except for the rock and sand...and set up the 40 from a 20L the clowns were in so i can also make it a frag tank..the intention was to have them in by them selves..with hopes of someday having babies:fun2:..I have..had 4 pairs..1 mated pair of percula..breed like machines..in my 275..but just let it be food for the tank..also a pair of blacks..and a pair of mocas I just lost cause of a mistake of trying to save a coral and put it in the moca tank.."a newbie mistake"..I read up on cultures..for the phtyo and rotis etc for feeding the fry..I read alot of things in this hobby...NOW..to the point...when I say I dont feel safe with the tank is cause I think it is more than ick..like amyloodinium and something else which i cant figure out..i think the sand and rock is the key to all the problems....No the mistake...I didnt want to wast some of that rock and putit in the 40 when upgraded for the blizzards..I knew it..and sure enough..this is what happened...So Cause I CARE about ALL my specimens..I want to have a 100% safe tank for these guys..cause yes ..they are $$$$$ and love the way they look..this is why we do this..cause we like to look at our specimens and if they are costly..yes I read about them..I keep CBB, morish idols, purple tangs and etc...Also High end corals. although ACROS ..admittedly give me trouble..but I think I know why....anyway... SO When I had problems with them I needed to make sure i did all that I can and the ABSOLUTE right way to go about this..cause yes there are MANY that know more than me...And some have defended me with what others said..like

the "tank" is not blame-able...

in post #109 you said about yourself "Again showing newbie status"....and now a few post later you are contradicting yourself.

You don't seem to know much...this hobby is not for the people that just want to try and get lucky "this" time...it's for people that are willing to take the proper steps and care for the livestock that they keep. Being able to buy expensive stuff does not mean that you are able to care for it...once you get past the money exchange it's all about what you know how to do...

frankly I feel sorry for the fish.

..Is the arragance one pointed out that they feel some should not do this...but if you dont know "RESEARCH" about the person whoi needs help...or even ask a few question abotu him/her..dont say righteous things!

he ASKS for help then adds two more fish anyways.

wasnt 2..was 1 yellow tailed blue damsel..but you seem free to say negative things cause maybe you think you are great at this and others shoulodnt even be in the hobby..is just frustrating..you werent even here to help in the past..just say negative things...like i contradict my self..

in post #109 you said about yourself "Again showing newbie status"....and now a few post later you are contradicting yourself.

..I said newbie ..cause I made a newbie mistake..patience is everything in this hobby..I didnt have i that day and almost .."unfortunately" lost an expensive pair of fish...and yes if it was less $$ I would have started hypo on my own then asked for questions to see what else can be done.. if any at all...I have been NOT lucky but fortunate.. with this adventure cause I DO read and research ...and had 1 problem..ick in the 275...I made a hospital tank and toiok what fish I could catch and transfered them..hypoed that tank..hypoed the 275 and watched it every day and night to look for signs of losing any corals..having bacterias dye off etc...and didnt go as low as recommended for that reason...the 275 healed without 1 loss of corals but i did lose a flame that I couldnt get out of it..and the fish i took out healed 100% before introing to the 275..see i remeber all the lost time to heal the right way..got impatient and threw a tester fish in the no 40 problemed tank...and as far as going back to saying setting up a new tank

Setting up another tank with rock from your main (INFECTED) tank is no different than putting them back in the main tank. that rock is infected. the only way around your DT issue is buying "new live rock" but then you assume the risks of what that new LR might contain!

very true!! I just went through this...that why this thread is here....I meant take from the 275...I always have several tanks going..that I can steal and swap from....anyway..this is turning into an epic novel so will end it here and think I covered enough to say that I an QUALIFIED to keep what I want..even an expensive and rare pair of clowns like my blizzards...I thank those for the help you are giving..and those that have nothing but righteous things to say...thanks but no thanks....

As he stated, he made a mistake and is paying for it. I doubt it will happen again and give him credit for opening a thread and trying to rectify the situation. Being a $400 set of fish may have been a blessing in disguise because I think a $3 fish would have been flushed without a second thought. Tell me a saltwater aquarist that hasn't made a mistake and I'll show you the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Ya know, I'm not sure I've met anyone in the hobby who has never rushed something along

The point is lighten up. Nobody's perfect.

..and last..Matthew..thanks for not reading into what I wrote and gget defensive with me..wasnt my point and you A++ for your following post to mine...a true community reefer...

 

[MatthewLaw]

thanks for your thorough response, astranotus. if you think the issue is with the sand in the 275, then you will NOT put any rock from the 275 in the clown fish's new tank?

 

[astranotus]

Sorry 1 last thing...This isnt just an isolated inccodent where i put fish in a tank and they got ick...there was alot more to it,,were 3 tanks involved etc...and at the begiining i put my # and asked for someone to call cause it would be easier to explain the WHOLE thing then this happen...and so i needed people with more knowledge than me..cause I am the type of hobbiest that NEEDS to know EXACTLY what the problem is and where is starts..so i can prevent it and learn....

 

[astranotus]

No the issue started in the 55...my 275 is and always is a seperate entity...I dont ake risks whith that..that tank irs perfectly healthy so i would use rock from that and buy live sand to cycle ..so the clowns have their own and healthy home....

 

[MatthewLaw]

thanks for the clarification....i thought the 275 was the infected tank. based on what you just wrote, i agree that you should/can use rock from the "safe" 275.

 

[WDLV]

If you want to start a new system for the "blizzards" I would use rock from the 275 NOW and start a tank while the "blizzards" are still in quarrantine. If you have the rock in the new tank for at least 30 days with no fish, crustaceans etc. I think you can safely add your "blizzards." I would not recommend wasting your money on live sand. I would just buy new dry sand. The LR will add all the bacteria and critters the sand will need without introducing any unknowns.

 

[astranotus]

If you want to start a new system for the "blizzards" I would use rock from the 275 NOW and start a tank while the "blizzards" are still in quarrantine. If you have the rock in the new tank for at least 30 days with no fish, crustaceans etc. I think you can safely add your "blizzards." I would not recommend wasting your money on live sand. I would just buy new dry sand. The LR will add all the bacteria and critters the sand will need without introducing any unknowns.

Yeah...this is what i wanted to do since they got sick cause the sand in the ...40 where this started ...I just feel I can't trust....and will leave that tank fallow for some time....So live sand...Aragonite in bags...not a good choice...the safest way is to get dry huh....ok..I'll do that ..cause I am using your method of increasing the salinity....let it evaporate and the salinity goes up and will add the water with the same SG and repeat..til the SG is back to normal levels...and that will take some time...Thanks..and glad I got everything straight..I dont always do that..i jump around alot and there were a lot of factors in this episode....

Sorry for the confusion matthew...here it is in a nut shell...the 275 is my "Main tank"..the 40 is the DT where stuff went wrong..which all started in a 55 FOWLR and the 20L was where the clowns were for a while ."perfectly healthy" til I upgraded to the 40 where i made the mistake of putting a bit of sand and 3 pieces of rock from the 55 FOWLR where the whole thing started.....now have a 10g hospital tank and a 10 QT where the clowns are now....

 

[astranotus]

I am choosing to just keep the 40 fallow..and the clowns are doing fantastic and getting the color back in the fins..constant water changes in the QT tank as well as the 40..and the 40 has a UV on it..the QT is starting to come up in salinity...now at 1.016..I raise it 1.002 every 3 days now...and when reaches normal levels..will keep them there for 2 more weeks..which to 40 will (should) be ready to have them re-introduced...thanks guys...

 

[MatthewLaw]

why are you raising the SG??? the QT tank has not been at 1.009 for 4 weeks!?!?

 

[WDLV]

There's that unbearable desire to tweak things wearing him down again. LOL!

 

[astranotus]

It has been 4 weeks..(+) days:thumbsup:..I hypoed them on the 22nd of Feb..when I started this thread....Thats how I am keeping track of time...well...technically ..i did it on the 23rd.

There's that unbearable desire to tweak things wearing him down again. LOL!

lol...yeah..I am horrible with patience..that's how this all started too..
Now on to my next project.....raising them.....my pair of blacks are laying eggs now..my regular percs have been doing it for months now... But want to raise the blacks and learn what I can for a better success ratio when the snowflakes start laying eggs...Hopefully anyway..

 

[WDLV]

Quarrantine should be performed for a minimum of one month after purchase or the last symptom of disease. Whichever is longer. I usually end up quarrantining fish for 90 days. 30 for inverts.

I don't think I ever said this in so many words but you're supposed to go to AT LEAST 30 days beyond the last symptom of disease. Not from the day you started the process. The free swimming stage of ick cannot survive hypo nor can the infection stage but if there are ANY of them in the settle out stage and you raise hypo you're gonna get it back. The worst part is that it might only attach to the gills where you can't see it.

BTW, using the thread is a good way to keep track of what you're doing and when you did it. I also use pictures which I name by the date taken. It helps me know when I bought certain specimens, set up systems etc.

 

[astranotus]

BTW, using the thread is a good way to keep track of what you're doing and when you did it. I also use pictures which I name by the date taken. It helps me know when I bought certain specimens, set up systems etc.

Yeah..it works well for a kind of log....
So I will have to keep them QT for at least another 2 weeks then...cause all symptoms seemed to be gone within a week...well physical evidence anyway...the SG is at 1.016...can I keep it there for the rest of the treatment or lower it back to 1.009?

 

[WDLV]

I would drop it back down.

 

[wgood33]

How are your clowns? All good I hope:spin1: Bill