Epidemic has broken out

[tony727]

I need some ideas

I have a 90 gallon system, half my fish are showing signs of flukes/ich.
I'm thinking of moving all my fish to a large tank..or moving all my corals and inverts (several snails + 2 lobsters) to a different tank and treating using hyposalinity/ tank transfer.

If I move the fish I can use copper, but they will be hard to catch..
If moving corals and inverts, then I will have to move my lights and most of my rocks.

What do you guys suggest?

 

[HumbleFish]

When it comes to ich... with hypo the odds of success are no where near 100%. Copper is better, but only TT gets you close to 100%.

Listing all the fish you need to treat might give us a better idea of which treatment to recommend.

 

[snorvich]

When it comes to ich... with hypo the odds of success are no where near 100%. Copper is better, but only TT gets you close to 100%.

Listing all the fish you need to treat might give us a better idea of which treatment to recommend.

Exactly. And do you have ich or flukes? Treatment is different.

 

[tony727]

It's my dad's tank so please don't hurt me

Naso Tang
Blue Hippo X
Humu Trigger X
Clown Trigger X
Ocellaris Clown X
Cleaner Wrasse
Yellow Corris
Sandsifting goby
2 Damsel
2 Anthias

Fish with signs of parasites are marked with X.
All the fish are roughly the same size 1-3", still active and behaving normally as of right now, I don't see any signs of flashing either. They can all be hand fed and not shy of it.

Carrier of parasites is most likely the Clown Trigger my dad added last week or the week before.

 

[tony727]

Exactly. And do you have ich or flukes? Treatment is different.

I'm having trouble identifying it because I've been sitting here for 3 hours and the fish are still behaving "normally" as in regular swimming, no signs of itching, and eating well. I do see white spots on the triggers fins and some small spots on the blue tang.

My dad doesn't quarantine, he thinks the fish can fight it off. In the end I'm the one to deal with it, I am familiar with the treatments.:headwalls:

Deciding on the best one in order to save them all is the big issue..I have 2 10 gallon tanks, 2 20 gallon tanks, and a 5 gallon. I'll probably have to go out and buy a much bigger tank for treatment now. I also have cupramine and prazipro to treat.

 

[wooden_reefer]

When it comes to ich... with hypo the odds of success are no where near 100%. Copper is better, but only TT gets you close to 100%.

Listing all the fish you need to treat might give us a better idea of which treatment to recommend.

I tend to think that the claim that Cu is less effective in the eradication of ich than TT is presumptive.

 

[HumbleFish]

I do see white spots on the triggers fins and some small spots on the blue tang.

Sounds like ich, but I would post some pics of these white spots to be sure.

I tend to think that the claim that Cu is less effective in the eradication of ich than TT is presumptive.

IMO; it would only be as effective as TT if you treated for 3 months and tested the Cu level daily. Realistically, who is going to do that? Can a fish even survive in copper for that long without risking serious damage?

 

[tony727]

Thank you for the quick replies everyone!
I am sure it is ich now, trigger is definitely itching.

HumbleFish, how do you suggest I treat these fish? I don't want to have them stressed anymore than they are..
I am thinking of tank transfer, but how big of 2 tanks would I need? Also how difficult is it to catch/transfer that many fish?

 

[HumbleFish]

How big are the tangs and triggers? IMO; it likely will be difficult to QT/TT all these fish in too small of a tank due to aggression.

 

[tony727]

Yea the aggression is what I worry about the Triggers are 2-3" and the tangs are around 3-4". I was thinking of using 2 large ~100g rubbermaid stock tanks if I was going to TT or just 1 for copper treatment, I have spare equipment; I would just need to get the holding tanks.

Another choice would be to use several smaller aquariums and connect them, but keep the fish separate somehow..

 

[HumbleFish]

The 100 gal rubbermaids should work for TT, but do you realize you will be going thru 500 gals worth of salt?! IMO; you would still need a "clear tank" for after TT so you can observe during the 72 fallow period.

 

[tony727]

I could try to find a smaller rubbermaid/tank..I know the amount of water wasted is very high. Do you think a 55-75 gallon is good enough for observation?

What do you suggest as the minimum tank size/ water volume?

 

[snorvich]

I tend to think that the claim that Cu is less effective in the eradication of ich than TT is presumptive.

And I tend to think that the claim the Cu is as effective in the eradication of ich compared to tank transfer is presumptive. See the post as to why above.

 

[HumbleFish]

What do you suggest as the minimum tank size/ water volume?

I'm thinking a 55 gal with lots of PVC elbows for hiding places. So, you could probably do TT using two 55 gal tanks, or one can be a rubbermaid of roughly the same size to save $$$. But ensure the final transfer goes into the 55 gal tank, so you can observe. Needless to say, you will be doing a lot of WCs during the observation period to control ammonia. Do yourself a favor and invest in a large Aquaclear HOB (110 would be ideal). And buy a bottle or two of Bio-spira so you can "seed" the sponges that come with the Aquaclear for the observation period. This will help control the ammonia, saving you a ton of time/money for salt.

 

[Deinonych]

I tend to think that the claim that Cu is less effective in the eradication of ich than TT is presumptive.

I don't. TT exploits the most predictable phase (trophont) and breaks the cycle, preventing formation of tomonts and the subsequent infective stage. No tomonts = no theronts = no reinfection.

Copper only affects the theront stage, from which excystment is highly variable - anywhere from 3 to 72 days. And, there's no way to tell if you have any encysted tomonts (which are not affected by the medication) remaining after copper treatment ends.

But maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong angle. Please explain why it is presumptive.

 

[tony727]

I have a spare skimmer I could use..I also have Seachem matrix and bioballs I could use.

During the TT how big of a problem is ammonia/ water parameters going whack?
Its only 3 days so I think everything will be fine, but in your experience, what do you think?

How effective is hypo compared to TT?
As in % rate, if I do everything correctly?

Thank you so much everyone!

 

[Cujo13]

Read the stickies on the top of the page, TTM is the way to go. Prime will take care of any ammonia concerns you have. I must say I am thinking that a 90 gallon with that stocking might be over stocked...just a thought. Good luck, I hope everything goes well.

 

[tony727]

Yup, pretty overstocked..I warned him, but he always knows best eh!
I'm looking into getting a 300 gallon tank, then he can have whatever he wants..

 

[HumbleFish]

I have a spare skimmer I could use..I also have Seachem matrix and bioballs I could use.

The matrix/bioballs can help with the ammonia, but they first needed to be seeded with nitrifying bacteria. Don't use anything out of the contaminated DT, and don't start using the matrix/bioballs until post TT.

During the TT how big of a problem is ammonia/ water parameters going whack?
Its only 3 days so I think everything will be fine, but in your experience, what do you think?

With that bio-load, you will likely see ammonia before the 3 days are up. However, using an ammonia reducer such as Prime or Amquel will mitigate it.

How effective is hypo compared to TT?
As in % rate, if I do everything correctly?

Hypo has two big problems with it:

1) Very difficult to implement correctly, because you have to use a perfectly calibrated refractometer and an ATO to prevent the SG from ticking up past 1.009. If that happens at any time, you have to reset the clock and start over from scratch.

2) Hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist.

 

[tony727]

Thanks again HumbleFish, I've decided to go with TT, I'll probably set up a permanent/ temporary quarantine while doing the TT.

How would you suggest sanitizing the tank and equipment after TT?
I was planning to wipe down with diluted bleach and sun dry. Some people said completely dry after 24 hours is good enough, but I'm skeptical..