ER Skimmer with new pump

[humuhumu]

I've had my CS8-2 now for about 4+ years and I've decided to try to "improve" its performance. I plan to do the RC mod, which I've been reading about in so many posts, this weekend. I also recently picked up a new Sedra 9000 which was designed for an ASM G4+. According to the specs, this thing should blow the doors (i.e. higher air intake and flow rate) out of the old Sedra 5000, which came with the CS8-2.

After making the switch, and plugging the 9000 in, I didn't notice any improvement at all. There didn't seem to be any change in the amount of bubbles nor in the the amount of flow. So, I was wondering... the return tube on the 5000 pump assembly has a larger radius 90 degree bend whereas the 9000 has a 90 degree schedule 80 pvc elbow. Could this sharp bend in the output be restricting the flow that much? I'm tempted to just hook up the 9000 directly to the skimmer body without the elbow. Any thoughts? Also, I rinsed the new pump in warm water for a while. Would I have to go through another break-in period with the new pump since there are possibly still some oils on it?

I was hoping for a dramatic improvement. Was I expecting too much?

 

[humuhumu]

In case anyone's interested...

Last night I removed the 90 degree PVC elbow on the output and connected the 9000 directly to the skimmer body and there was definitely more flow and more air bubbles. Additionally, I decided to make a mesh wheel from the old 5000 needle wheel (using 3M heavy duty stripping pads. got the idea on this forum) , installed it on the 9000 and... OMG!!! This thing sucks in so much air compared to the needle wheel version. I could tell right away by the added noise coming from the air hose sucking in more air and by the increased air bubble density in the skimmer chamber. Now I gotta do something about deadening the noise!

I'll be doing the RC mod tonight which should make this thing even more effective.

 

[dsltech]

hi..do u know if the body of 9000 is the same size as the 5000 physicaly? i got the 8-3 with the 5000 recirculating and if they are the same size then i'm thinking of upgrading to 9000 as well.. cause the new eheim 1262 is different than the in and out of the 5000 will not line up..pls let me know..thank you in advance

 

[humuhumu]

hi dsltech,
The writing that was on the pump is no longer legible. So I've assumed the original pump which came with the cs-2 was a sedra 5000 because euroreef's website says that's what it is. Anyway, no, the two pumps are not the same size. The 9000 that was designed for the ASM G4+ has a bottom plate with suction cups which puts the outlet tube about 1/4" to 1/2" above the input tube to the skimmer body. So, what I did was stack some eggcrate light diffuser material below the base of the skimmer and I removed the suction cups to get them to line up. I highly recommend removing the suction cups on the 9000 because they are a pain when moving things around. This was a temporary fix because I plan to convert the skimmer to a recirculation skimmer this weekend and position the pump in an upright position similar to how the current recirculation skimmers are configured. I intend to keep the pump outlet to skimmer inlet the same. On the pump input, I'll attach a 1" 90 degree pvc elbow to the intake then drill a hole for a uniseal for a 1" pvc pipe.

Other differences are the 9000 has a 1" tube while the 5000 has a 3/4" tube. I used a pvc slip 1" to 3/4" reducer bushing to hook up the pump to the skimmer.

Another difference between the two pumps is the 5000 from euroreef had a large diameter turning radius on the outlet tube whereas, the 9000 had a 1" 90 degree pvc elbow. This 90 elbow REALLY reduces the flow and the difference in air intake and flow between the two pumps was negligible. As I mentioned in my 2nd post, when I took off the 90 degree elbow and hooked the 9000 directly to the 1"x3/4" reducer bushing to the skimmer, the increase in flow and air intake was noticeable; however, I got the biggest increase in performance from the meshwheel mod which I also recommend. It was that much of an improvement that not converting it to a RC skimmer is still a consideration. But I've already got the parts so what the hell!

Hope that helps!

btw, i picked up the 9000 from reefgeek. great to work with.

 

[dsltech]

thanks for the reply... i think i will try the mesh mod now.. i was just too scared to mess around with my only one impeller.. did u get the 3m scrubber from hardware store?

 

[humuhumu]

Yeah, no worries on the impeller mod. I used a Dremel tool and it was pretty easy. Just don't get too carried away and chop up the base disc! I picked up the 3m stripping mod at Ace Hardware in Walnut Creek. http://www.acehardware.com/product/...g+pad&parentPage=search&searchId=19607189671. Looks like there are some stores near you in Fremont and Hayward.

 

[humuhumu]

Here's a picture of the 5000 (left) and the 9000 (right):

This shows the output tubes on the 5000 which is smooth while the 9000 has a very restrictive 90 degree pvc elbow:

Here are some meshwheel pics:

Finished product before going in the sump. I also decided to add a drain line off the collection cup:

In the sump:

Everything seems to be going fine. I guess with all the cleaning and added parts, this thing needs some breaking in. The bubbles are still transitioning from large to small. I'm still trying to decide how to dial this thing in. I've teed off the tank's return line and I'm trying to figure out how much to restrict the output from the skimmer and how much to feed the skimmer from the tank's return pump. Anybody got any suggestions or a manual from one of the other RC Skimmer's they'd like to share?

Thanks.

 

[dsltech]

hi humuhumu.. i see u finally did ur rc mod.. can u pls tell me how far apart are the holes on the skimer of your pump in and out and also the diameter of the hole... i have the 5000 recirculating already and just wondering if i can just put in the 9000.. i wonder if the hole locations are the same... oh yeah they said that u multiply ur water volume to 1.5 and that should be your flow on your feed on your skimmer... yours would be around 225gph if its 150...

 

[humuhumu]

dsltech, with the whole assembly in the sump, it's hard to get an accurate measurement. I placed a stick in the sump and visually measured the center to center distance between the inlet and output tubes and it comes out to roughly 5.375 inches. Again, this is not a very exact measurement but I would give it an extra 1/4" either way.

I do not think you can just switch out the 5000 for the 9000 because the 9000, which I've turned upright, has more of a separation between the tubes than the 5000. The hole for my input was 1.75" for a 1" uniseal. The hole for the pump output into the skimmer was predrilled when I bought the skimmer and it was for a 3/4" tube. I didn't measure the hole diameter... sorry. Thanks for the tip on the flow rate... now, if I only had a flow meter...

 

[dsltech]

i was just wondering how come u took the feed from the return instead of from the overflow? on my setup i just put a T on my overflow coming from the one inch bulkhead and put a ballvalve so that i can control the flow to the skimmer..

 

[humuhumu]

No particular reason other than I already had a tee on my return which I used to feed my calcium reactor. I'll see how it works for now and decide if it's worth tapping into the overflow instead.

 

[dsltech]

hey humuhumu since u mention your calcium reactor maybe u can help me with my calcium reactor to setup cause i haven't gotten a respond on my post yet... which buble counter do i do my counting on? the one on the reactor or the one on co2 regulator? im trying to do 1bubble per second and 30drip per min..are these about right?

 

[Jim_S]

Very nice job on the RC conversion!!! :thumbsup: Lots of people really want to try that. Did you tank any pics along the way?

BTW, I've never seen a sedra 9000, but the pump you have there looks exactly like my sp4 gen-x 4100 pump. Are you sure that is a sedra 9000?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[humuhumu]

i don't know which one is correct either but i've been using the counter on the co2 regulator. no particular reason other than i believe that it's probably more accurate the closer it is to the source. different reactor manufacturers claim different efficiencies and i've heard anywhere from 30-60 bubbles per second and 30 drips per minute. i asked the manufacturer of mine (reeftek) and he basically said i shouldn't be measuring the drip rates by drops per minute but should be measuring the actual flow. i just based everything on observation and everything seemed "okay" with those numbers you're stating. of course, my system is very lightly loaded and i don't keep any sps, just softies. sorry i couldn't give you a more technical answer.

 

[dsltech]

thanks humu.. by the way hows your new rc doing now? are u getting some good skimmate yet?

 

[humuhumu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9211617#post9211617 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimdogg187
Very nice job on the RC conversion!!! :thumbsup: Lots of people really want to try that. Did you tank any pics along the way?

BTW, I've never seen a sedra 9000, but the pump you have there looks exactly like my sp4 gen-x 4100 pump. Are you sure that is a sedra 9000?

Cheers,

Jim

Thanks jimdogg187 , I got the idea from all the posts by all the "brave" forum members willing to make the "leap of faith". I mean, what would possess someone to mutilate an expensive needle wheel and to drill holes in a skimmer which cost $500 +/- 4 years ago? But seeing all the recent advancements that have taken place got me to thinking about upgrading. But seeing how the current equivalent skimmer by ER (RC 180, I know, it's not the EXACT equivalent but you know what I mean) costs upwards of $800 , I thought I'd give this a go for the cost of a new recirculating pump, uniseals, pvc fittings, and some quick disconnects. I probably spent something on the order of $150. Makes looking into buying a used old skimmer body like mine and converting it over a viable option.

Sorry I didn't take pics along the way. I agree it would've been very descriptive, you know... "a picture tells a thousand words" but, I thought I was behind the times in not having already done this and that no one would be interested in seeing another "I converted by skimmer" thread. I believe I already posted all the pics but all the pics I did take can be found here.

About the pump... I bought it from reefgeek. By the way, they are great. I ordered it Monday morning and it arrived at my door on Wednesday. And, they stuck in a bag of candy!!! Okay, enough of the endorsements... here's a pc of the box the pump came in:

I can't read what's on the pump right now (it's submerged and running) but the box does say it's a SEDRA KSP-9000 made for a GSM-4+. And, judging from what's attached to the ER RS180, I can see how you can make that conclusion. They look exactly the same... hmmm.

 

[humuhumu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9211704#post9211704 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dsltech
thanks humu.. by the way hows your new rc doing now? are u getting some good skimmate yet?

dsltech, it's starting to "kick-in". All day today I've been tinkering with the input and output flow rates, air intake rates, bubble levels, etc... and haven't really given it a chance to do it's thing. I probably made a mistake by hastily installing it without prepping it for the install. The only thing I did before installing it inline was rinse it in warm water. In hindsight, I should have given it a proper break-in by giving it a warm water and vinegar bath for a few hours.

The bubbles have been very turbulent, inconsistently sized, wet and, on a couple occasions, I've had to empty the cup because the foam overflowed the collection cup. Well, since around 5pm today, it started developing a foam head indicating its break-in period was over and was actually starting to skim. Here's a pic taken a few minutes ago (approx. 11:30pm):

It's got about a 1/4" inch of light skimmate at the bottom. Once it gets to about 3/4" full, it will start going into the new drain line then into an external collection cup. I'm really pleased with what I've been seeing so far. I could never get this dense of a bubble column from the old setup. It's looking very promising!

 

[dsltech]

nice work there im glad ur finally getting some good skimmate.. im suprise u did not just go for the eheim 1262...now u got me thinking of doing the same thing i just dont know how or if its possible on mine cause i already have a hole for my 5000...oh yeah does the 9000 have the same spec as the eheim 1262... it would be really cool if u have an air meter just to see how much the 9000 is sucking in with the mesh mod... also i notice that the rc seems to get a darker skimmate than the none rc, i have a G3 unmodded and never gotten any darker skimmate, well maybe thats just me ..

 

[Jim_S]

Yeah, the 9000 looks really similar to the gen-x4100. I had no idea :lol:

For some reason the product info page is down at the ER site, but IIRC, the ER 9000 was listed with different numbers than the ER gen-x.

I went with the eheim 1262 for my RC180. I've been very pleased. I was looking for silence and I found it

I really like the base on your skimmer.

Nice little touch IMO.

Jim

 

[humuhumu]

dsltech and jimdogg187, thanks for the compliments. I considered the 1262 but decided to go with the 9000 because, like dsltech, I was hoping it would be a simple switcharoo with the 5000. I was still on the fence about doing the RC mod. I mean, I looked at the product pics of the ASM's and the Euroreefs and, I thought the 5000 I looked like the 9000 in the pictures with the backing plate for the suction cups. Imagine my surprise when I found out the backing plate was permanently attached to the pump making it taller than the 5000. I entertained the thought of using the dremel tool to carve it out! By the way, I read somewhere on this forum that the modified eheim 1262 from EuroReef costs nearly $400; however, the regular eheim 1262 costs just a little more than the 9000. My question is, if I were to buy a 1262 (might still consider it as I'd like to have a second pump for those "just in case" moments), would I have to do anything special to install a venturi inlet? Or, does all the necessary accessories to convert it over come with it?

jimdogg, regarding the base, are you talking about how mine is square and oversized compared to the skimmer body? I saw on the ER RC180 product site (seems to be working now) the current skimmers have a rounded base barely larger than the skimmer body. Well. my base came with the skimmer when I bought it so I can't take credit for that.

dsltech,
I read that the 1262 and 9000 have similar flow rates so I'm assuming air intake is similar as well. The 1262 is probably built better.