Established SPS tank, slowly rotting away.
- Thread starter Kurkis493
- Start date
Yeah sorry, May 2014. The tank is a little over 2 years old.
For fish I have:
Black Tang
Achilles Tang
Hippo Tang
Borbonius Anthias
Orchid Dottyback
Pair of Clowns
Midas Blenny
4-line Wrasse
Pair of Neon Gobies
Mandarin
I feed algae sheets and 2-3x a day various types of NLS pellets.
This has been a standard feeding regiment for years. I've had all 3 of my tangs since February 2014. They are starting to mature now and my achilles being the smallest of the 3 is starting to become a little aggressive.
What is good is that in November I am moving and instead of setting the 120 back up, I am going to set-up a nice size prop system in the garage and I can split them up.
For fish I have:
Black Tang
Achilles Tang
Hippo Tang
Borbonius Anthias
Orchid Dottyback
Pair of Clowns
Midas Blenny
4-line Wrasse
Pair of Neon Gobies
Mandarin
I feed algae sheets and 2-3x a day various types of NLS pellets.
This has been a standard feeding regiment for years. I've had all 3 of my tangs since February 2014. They are starting to mature now and my achilles being the smallest of the 3 is starting to become a little aggressive.
What is good is that in November I am moving and instead of setting the 120 back up, I am going to set-up a nice size prop system in the garage and I can split them up.
cthedaytrader
Active member
Unless you have a pest, or an outside contaminate as people have mentioned I think your issue is linked to Zeovit. There are so many moving parts to Zeovit its really hard to pinpoint a problem.
I can only speak from my personal experience with Zeovit, I have used to twice, and when it is working it works amazingly well. However, I had similar problems as you had, even before stopping, which is what prompted me to stop, and when I stopped even when I tried to go even slower the second time, things got worse.
They way you stopped zeovit by simply not changing the stones, is really not the way to stop, you should slowly decrease the flow of the stones, and use less stones over a period of time. Zeovit uses say 4-6 weeks, frankly I think it should be even slower than that. As you do that you have to slowly decrease the addivitives.
The problem is as you do this things become stressed as you described, and parameters can be thrown even more out of wack. Decreased growth can lead to spikes in ALk, CA.
I found that I would have to weather the storm and minimize damage, keeping doing water changes, choose my new system I was going to run Carbon dosing, fuge, biopellets, ATS etc. Monitor your parameters especially alk, ca, Nitrates, Phosphates.
Test for Potassium as well, Zeovit consumed a lot of Poatassium in my tank which slowed to nearly nothing once i stopped. High K can lead to burnt tips and other issues.
Once my tank stabilized and everything normalized the sps healed and started to do well again. While I really liked the Zeovit results, there are so many variables to account for when something goes wrong its not that easy to pinpoint.
One thing I did which might not be an option was, I switched back to Radiums from my ATI PM, I still run T5s on my frag tank, but I found that the sps recovered better under the Radiums.
I can only speak from my personal experience with Zeovit, I have used to twice, and when it is working it works amazingly well. However, I had similar problems as you had, even before stopping, which is what prompted me to stop, and when I stopped even when I tried to go even slower the second time, things got worse.
They way you stopped zeovit by simply not changing the stones, is really not the way to stop, you should slowly decrease the flow of the stones, and use less stones over a period of time. Zeovit uses say 4-6 weeks, frankly I think it should be even slower than that. As you do that you have to slowly decrease the addivitives.
The problem is as you do this things become stressed as you described, and parameters can be thrown even more out of wack. Decreased growth can lead to spikes in ALk, CA.
I found that I would have to weather the storm and minimize damage, keeping doing water changes, choose my new system I was going to run Carbon dosing, fuge, biopellets, ATS etc. Monitor your parameters especially alk, ca, Nitrates, Phosphates.
Test for Potassium as well, Zeovit consumed a lot of Poatassium in my tank which slowed to nearly nothing once i stopped. High K can lead to burnt tips and other issues.
Once my tank stabilized and everything normalized the sps healed and started to do well again. While I really liked the Zeovit results, there are so many variables to account for when something goes wrong its not that easy to pinpoint.
One thing I did which might not be an option was, I switched back to Radiums from my ATI PM, I still run T5s on my frag tank, but I found that the sps recovered better under the Radiums.
I may have found the problem.
Was able to pick-up a Salifert K kit about 6 weeks ago and the test told me that my K was 390. When I got my Triton results back a couple of weeks ago I glanced over K to see that it was in the green area and kept looking for other potential problems.
I went back through my results this afternoon and my K at the time the test was done came in at 450. Clearly, clearly too high if that is accurate and could be the source of my problems. If this is also the case then the Salifert K test kit I have is worthless. I did do 90 gallons of water changes on my 120 two weeks ago and another water change today (15 gallons this time) so my K now should be more inline with whatever Tropic Marin Pro mixes at.
Will see, at this point anything dying is from whatever was going on over the last couple of months. I will stay the course for the time being so long as nothing new starts to STN.
Was able to pick-up a Salifert K kit about 6 weeks ago and the test told me that my K was 390. When I got my Triton results back a couple of weeks ago I glanced over K to see that it was in the green area and kept looking for other potential problems.
I went back through my results this afternoon and my K at the time the test was done came in at 450. Clearly, clearly too high if that is accurate and could be the source of my problems. If this is also the case then the Salifert K test kit I have is worthless. I did do 90 gallons of water changes on my 120 two weeks ago and another water change today (15 gallons this time) so my K now should be more inline with whatever Tropic Marin Pro mixes at.
Will see, at this point anything dying is from whatever was going on over the last couple of months. I will stay the course for the time being so long as nothing new starts to STN.
fessoclown
Dis-Membered
Your tank is stunning! I sincerely hope you've discovered your trouble.
That FTS is fan-friking-tastic!!! I'd love to see more! Do you have a build journal?
That FTS is fan-friking-tastic!!! I'd love to see more! Do you have a build journal?
reefmutt
Active member
I would love to see your build thread..
Can you post a broken link so as not to bother the powers that be, or pm me a link?
I've never used the zeovit method, so I can't really speak to that.
I asked about your fish load because your tank looks meticulously clean, like it's too clean.. I though perhaps an infusion of good old organic fish waste may help the corals out a bit.
450 for K is on the high side but is that really coral damagingly high? I'm not sure..
Can you post a broken link so as not to bother the powers that be, or pm me a link?
I've never used the zeovit method, so I can't really speak to that.
I asked about your fish load because your tank looks meticulously clean, like it's too clean.. I though perhaps an infusion of good old organic fish waste may help the corals out a bit.
450 for K is on the high side but is that really coral damagingly high? I'm not sure..
rovster
New member
Speaking from personal experience here, that kind of spike even if its an isolated event is enough, at least in MY TANK to send it into an out of control spiral. I've tested this theory inadvertantly several times. This is especially possible since you are running Zeo which is a carbon based system. I used to run my alk close to 8 but everytime it spiked to 8 or over stuff would start dying and receeding. My theory is that corals in carbon based systems although looking amazing, are extra sensitive to fluctuations in alk. I had recently been running my alk in the 6's (just naturally wound up there and stayed there) and had a spike after a fraggins session and everything is going to hell again. The problem with these things is they don't show up until a few days or a week later, and while you have remedied the problem things continue to get worse. As they get worse you think its something currently in your tank causing the problem so you start changing things, like dropping the zeo, which further exacerbates the problem.
The proper course of action is keep the tank as stable as you can with as little changes as you can and just ride out the storm. Some will make it some will fall. But it can take a few weeks to months before any significant improvement is observed and you just have to trust you are doing it right.
Granted, there may be other causes, like a magnet, stray voltage, ph, whatever. But in my STRONG opinion, a significant spike in alk, especially in a carbon based system, is THE most devastating thing that can happen to an SPS tank.
Just my opinion, lol!
I was able to cross check my NO3 with other test kits over the last couple of days and my NO3 is around 5ppm and my PO4 is coming in at around .02
I don't feel comfortable saying Zeovit stripped things at this point and I am ruling that out. My corals have been in the tank for awhile and are used to the ULNS conditions. The way I control my nutrients via Zeovit hasn't changed since I set the tank up.
My original theory because of the way corals were peeling and going to a pale brown was that my water was stripped and the Salifert kit was somehow giving me a false reading. I've replaced the Seachem Matrix media I put in the reactor a couple of Sundays ago with a fresh bag of Zeolites and have gone back to my normal dosing schedule for nutrient control. I want to bring things down to 2ppm before I start dosing color additives again.
Nothing new has started dying for 9 days now, which is a good thing. Polyp extension over the last week does look a little better across the tank so I can only take that as a sign things are improving.
Still haven't been able to pinpoint the initial cause and perhaps it was just a multitude of little things adding up... The temps in the tank started to swing a bit earlier this year as the warmer weather came in causing corals to slow in growth which lead to an alk increase which caused further stressed, topped with an elevated level of K? Who knows I guess, eh. Good thing is I can look forward to recovery!
Thank you all for helping me to sort this thing out.
For those who wanted more information on my system
wwww.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/members-tanks-setups/153265-kurkis493-120g-sps-system.html
I don't feel comfortable saying Zeovit stripped things at this point and I am ruling that out. My corals have been in the tank for awhile and are used to the ULNS conditions. The way I control my nutrients via Zeovit hasn't changed since I set the tank up.
My original theory because of the way corals were peeling and going to a pale brown was that my water was stripped and the Salifert kit was somehow giving me a false reading. I've replaced the Seachem Matrix media I put in the reactor a couple of Sundays ago with a fresh bag of Zeolites and have gone back to my normal dosing schedule for nutrient control. I want to bring things down to 2ppm before I start dosing color additives again.
Nothing new has started dying for 9 days now, which is a good thing. Polyp extension over the last week does look a little better across the tank so I can only take that as a sign things are improving.
Still haven't been able to pinpoint the initial cause and perhaps it was just a multitude of little things adding up... The temps in the tank started to swing a bit earlier this year as the warmer weather came in causing corals to slow in growth which lead to an alk increase which caused further stressed, topped with an elevated level of K? Who knows I guess, eh. Good thing is I can look forward to recovery!
Thank you all for helping me to sort this thing out.
For those who wanted more information on my system
wwww.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/members-tanks-setups/153265-kurkis493-120g-sps-system.html
Lol
Piper27
I love bengals
I run my potassium at 420, I saw burnt tips start when going past 430 or a little more so that could explain that. I did not see any rtn so that could be another issue. I can run my potassium level at 430 now and I think the zinc I am dosing is helping things. I read somewhere that zinc is supposed to help prevent burnt tips. So maybe dosing some could help heal the corals. Not sure you should experiment at this point though, maybe someone can elaborate on this.
I hope the rtn is subsided though, will follow for updates.
I hope the rtn is subsided though, will follow for updates.
NeverlosT
A bit fishy
great to hear that things are improving!
My guess is the TLF magnet rust issue (I can't believe that they sell those as "Reef Safe" in good conscience) and/or alk rollercoaster or infection.
I just completed an entire system reboot due to a slow decline like you were experiencing (except my decline lasted over a year and claimed almost all SPS eventually).
Keep up the recovery!
My guess is the TLF magnet rust issue (I can't believe that they sell those as "Reef Safe" in good conscience) and/or alk rollercoaster or infection.
I just completed an entire system reboot due to a slow decline like you were experiencing (except my decline lasted over a year and claimed almost all SPS eventually).
Keep up the recovery!
Myka
Reefing since '93
I absolutely agree with this opinion! I'd prefer to call it anecdotal evidence though.
I think this may be part of the problem, but not the entire story. Do you keep a detailed log book? I had a mini-crash, like you're having, and without my log book I would have never figured it out. IME, it takes 2-3 weeks for most corals to react to a situation in the tank (provided it's not a huge situation lol), so a detailed log book can remind you of the things you did 2-3 weeks ago.
Maybe you're not doing the Salifert test properly. Read through the directions very carefully without actually doing the test, and then read through them again while doing the test. Sometimes there is a little detail we miss, or maybe we just aren't reading it properly. It seems the Salifert kit measures up pretty good with Triton from what I've seen posted.
Since you've been doing such large waterchanges I have a hard time believing that there is something building up in your tank even though all the details you've provided point that direction.
I'm glad you restarted the Zeovit, as I don't think it's good to suddenly start or stop anything with an SPS tank, although restarting suddenly might just put more fuel on the fire. Start slow, stop slow.
Given what you've provided, I think your issues started with the mild alk spike, and were exacerbated by the elevated K. The Triton test was taken before the discontinuation of the stones right?
powderhound
Member
Any update on how your tank is doing? Im going through the same thing right now, for past few weeks. Let us get an update.
Established SPS tank, slowly rotting away.
Recalibrtae your salinity meter. I have such issue where it ran off so wide tat it causes daily rtn. The fix was a easy calibration fluid.
Mine decline over 6 months period and i was running out of options too
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Recalibrtae your salinity meter. I have such issue where it ran off so wide tat it causes daily rtn. The fix was a easy calibration fluid.
Mine decline over 6 months period and i was running out of options too
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Established SPS tank, slowly rotting away.
Doing good after i bring the salinity bavk from 1.030 to 1.025 over 2 days with slow ro dripping. Lost quite a few precious colony, but everything back on track now. I was using a reflectometer and never thought it would have so much deviation after 1 plus year of use. I tried so many correction on lightingn, feeding skimming and wc . Even do a major rescape to clean all the rock and scaping. End up is silly mistake. I started noticing poor polyp extension, follow by rtn on some sensitive colony.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Doing good after i bring the salinity bavk from 1.030 to 1.025 over 2 days with slow ro dripping. Lost quite a few precious colony, but everything back on track now. I was using a reflectometer and never thought it would have so much deviation after 1 plus year of use. I tried so many correction on lightingn, feeding skimming and wc . Even do a major rescape to clean all the rock and scaping. End up is silly mistake. I started noticing poor polyp extension, follow by rtn on some sensitive colony.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
