Everything old is new again

[nsxdreams]

Hey guys, I'll start out by sharing a bit about my experience in the hobby.
In 2012 I bought my first tank on the intention of going right into saltwater. With the help of a local shop and online research I had established a FOWLR setup which worked well for the first half year. It was pretty primitive, running only a tetra hang on filter and basic t5 lighting. As I became more confident I started to experiment with corals and trying out fish against local wishes. Between that time and the beginning of this year I have had my share of; an ammonia spike in which I lost every fish overnight, ick attacks and another parasite which I never identified, a rouge mantis shrimp being involuntarily introduced into my tank (which killed off my herbit crabs and 1 fish before I finally got him), a fish jumping out to its death, a yellow tail damsel that bullied and killed 2 fish, an uncontrollable algae overgrowth and so on...
Some of this was due to my carelessness and impatience and I never, on not one occasion have had success with corals. I spent a lot of money and have been suckered by the shop a time or two. Eventually I ended up letting the tank go and hardly maintained it.

I've since turned around and am now able to devote the time the tank needs. I am in no way an expert and what little I know I have learned mostly through my own experience so please bear with me. I have decided to join because I am familiar with the invaluable knowledge that can be learned from users on a forum. I'd like to slowly work my to an intermediate/advanced reef tank with corals. So I recently cleaned all the filter media, did a couple water changes and have let the tank cycle itself for the past week. Lighting is back on schedule and parameters are looking good so far. Which brings me to my very first question, which involves power head placement, something which I've heard explained in every possible way.

So first I'll bring you up to speed on my still semi-primitive setup:

Aqueon 40G Breeder Glass
Marineland Glass Canopy
Marineland Canister Filter including Matrix, Seagel, Ceramic Rings, and the stock foam filter pads. (forgive me if I remember the names and actual products i'm using
Marineland Water Heater (adjusts from top that I leave stick out over the water line)
Solarmax HE Double T5 21W Lighting
(2) Koralia Nano 425 Powerheads
Apprx. 55lbs Live Rock
I use Instant Ocean Reef Crystals salt

Here are current pictures of the tank: (no fish or inverts)

Please feel free to share any suggestions moving forward. I'll like to start out adding inverts first.

 

[LeRenard]

I'm a newb, but synthesizing what I've read and my experience: ditch the canopy to promote gas exchange, and ditch the canister filter for a skimmer. Even better if you can move to an overflow + sump, but a hang on skimmer will do. The canister filter will raise your nitrates unless you are retentive about keeping it clean. I'd imagine that raised your difficulty in keeping coral.

 

[billdogg]

You will need to upgrade your lighting, and I would get rid of the glass tops. You can easily replace them with a DIY screen top using window screen frame from HD/Lowes and 1/4" mesh from BRS. I think the aquascaping looks real nice.

Although you can use a canister filter, unless you clean it frequently, it can become a problem. The biggest problem with canisters, IMO, and I used one for 22 years on a 60g cube, is that they are a PIA to take apart and clean, so you will find excuses to put it off. Although not pretty, a HOB filter (marineland Emperor comes to mind) will provide both mechanical and biological filtration and be much easier to maintain.

Your heater should be submersible. If it isn't, it will fail due to salt creep.

If there is a possibility of adding a sump, I would.

hth

 

[homer1475]

I'm a newb, but synthesizing what I've read and my experience: ditch the canopy to promote gas exchange, and ditch the canister filter for a skimmer. Even better if you can move to an overflow + sump, but a hang on skimmer will do. The canister filter will raise your nitrates unless you are retentive about keeping it clean. I'd imagine that raised your difficulty in keeping coral.

I second this. 99% of your biological filtration takes place in the live rock(the main reason we put it in). There is no need for a mechanical filter for biological. A skimmer would be better then a HOB filter in your case. If you want to keep the canister, then fill it with chemical filtration(purigen, carbon, filter floss, chemipure, etc). Just keep in mind that with a canister filter if you don't keep it clean and change out your floss every couple days, you'll have issues with nitrates. An overflow with a sump is always better but not always practical.

Open up one side of that glass top and replace it with some eggcrate for better gas exchange and heat dissipation. Look into a submersible heater(anything sticking out of the tank like that will get a real bad salt creep eventually killing the heater)

Just remember no matter how much you want that new fish or coral, take your time. Nothing in this hobby happens fast except tank crashes from going to fast to begin with.

Seems like your heading on the right track this time. just keep reading and asking question around here. There is a wealth of knowledge around here, and no one is looking to sell you anything so the advice is usually sound.

Have fun and happy reefing!

 

[homer1475]

Rereading your OP...

If that's seachem matrix media, its basically the same thing as the ceramic rings(not really but in essence the same). Ditch one or the other. I would ditch the rings and keep the matrix as the matrix has way more surface area for biological filtration.

 

[nsxdreams]

Wow thanks for the input guys. So my first step this weekend is going to be the canopy then. Eggcrate vs screen wire? If it's the right thing to do I think Id like to go the sump route as well. I've been reading about sumps, and I'd rather not drill into the glass for the overflow box. Can I still go this route? Also what exactly is the difference between a skimmer and a sump?

I'm a newb, but synthesizing what I've read and my experience: ditch the canopy to promote gas exchange, and ditch the canister filter for a skimmer. Even better if you can move to an overflow + sump, but a hang on skimmer will do. The canister filter will raise your nitrates unless you are retentive about keeping it clean. I'd imagine that raised your difficulty in keeping coral.

Thank you.

You will need to upgrade your lighting, and I would get rid of the glass tops. You can easily replace them with a DIY screen top using window screen frame from HD/Lowes and 1/4" mesh from BRS. I think the aquascaping looks real nice.


Although you can use a canister filter, unless you clean it frequently, it can become a problem. The biggest problem with canisters, IMO, and I used one for 22 years on a 60g cube, is that they are a PIA to take apart and clean, so you will find excuses to put it off. Although not pretty, a HOB filter (marineland Emperor comes to mind) will provide both mechanical and biological filtration and be much easier to maintain.

Your heater should be submersible. If it isn't, it will fail due to salt creep.

If there is a possibility of adding a sump, I would.

hth

Thanks man.

I second this. 99% of your biological filtration takes place in the live rock(the main reason we put it in). There is no need for a mechanical filter for biological. A skimmer would be better then a HOB filter in your case. If you want to keep the canister, then fill it with chemical filtration(purigen, carbon, filter floss, chemipure, etc). Just keep in mind that with a canister filter if you don't keep it clean and change out your floss every couple days, you'll have issues with nitrates. An overflow with a sump is always better but not always practical.

Open up one side of that glass top and replace it with some eggcrate for better gas exchange and heat dissipation. Look into a submersible heater(anything sticking out of the tank like that will get a real bad salt creep eventually killing the heater)

Just remember no matter how much you want that new fish or coral, take your time. Nothing in this hobby happens fast except tank crashes from going to fast to begin with.

Seems like your heading on the right track this time. just keep reading and asking question around here. There is a wealth of knowledge around here, and no one is looking to sell you anything so the advice is usually sound.

Have fun and happy reefing!

Thank you!

 

[RockOn681]

A skimmer is a piece of equipment that will go in a sump or can hang off the back if you buy a model that can. You can very well make a tank work without a sump, but the skimmer is quite helpful and will aid in gas exchange. Screen tops are nice and will prevent jumpers, but if you are handy you could build a wood canopy that would also prevent or at least greatly reduce jumpers. The heater is typically designed to be fully submerged near the bottom and positioned horizontally not vertically.

If you do go the sump route and overflow for a tank this size would really be no issue, and if it is set up correctly will work just fine after a power outage. I ran one on an undrilled 75 gallon for 5 years without a single problem (They are a PIA to clean though because then you have to restart the siphon).

 

[CStrickland]

Wow thanks for the input guys. So my first step this weekend is going to be the canopy then. Eggcrate vs screen wire? If it's the right thing to do I think Id like to go the sump route as well. I've been reading about sumps, and I'd rather not drill into the glass for the overflow box. Can I still go this route? Also what exactly is the difference between a skimmer and a sump?

The skimmer is a piece of equipment, the sump is an extra body of water that is connected to the tank. Some skimmers go in the sump, and some hang on the back of the tank. My fav part of the sump is getting all the equipment and stuff out of view, in a connected tank underneath the display.

If the glass isn't tempered, drilling is way more reliable that an overflow. If you are going to have a sump, then it is better to drill holes in the tank for the plumbing to connect to it. It's a lot easier to do that now than when the tank is stocked.

Screens have smaller holes so even little fish can't jump out, and some say they don't block the light as much but some say it doesn't make a diff.

It sounds like you got off to a rough start with bad info from the lfs, happens all the time. If I were you I would go back to basics and read the beginner stickies in here about setting up a tank and everything. It's a lot easier if you have the basics down before you really get going, instead of trying to deal with things as they come up. You'll still be dealing with things, but at least you'll know how to ask questions and be able to understand the answers better, y'know? I really like your aqua scape, that's gonna be so pretty when you gets some corals growing!

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

You've gotten alot of good advice so far on filtration. One thing that's important is water flow. I don't think you have enough in your tank now. Looking at the pictures, the surface of the water is perfectly flat, indicated a big lack of flow. I' recomend 1-2 800gph or so powerheads. The flow depends on coral if you want that. If you don't, you woun't need as much. I'd still add at least 1 though. Coral need the flow, and even with fish only, the flow will kick up detritus in the tank so it can be filtered out, rather than settling and causing nitrate issues.

 

[nsxdreams]

Thanks for the continued input guys. Is there a thread on here that lists basics of building a sump? Does anyone have any pics of their sump/skimmer they would like to share?
Rockon681, how was your non drilled setup run.

Thanks again guys.

You'll still be dealing with things, but at least you'll know how to ask questions and be able to understand the answers better, y'know? I really like your aqua scape, that's gonna be so pretty when you gets some corals growing!

Wow thank you!

 

[billdogg]

My 60g cube made it 22 years using a Marineland Emperor dual biowheel HOB and a canister filter filled with carbon and LR rubble. I had 3 x T12 VHO (75W ea, total 225W) for lighting and a TLF150 GFO reactor. No Skimmer. I was able to keep pretty much anything I wanted other than many SPS corals.

Here's a couple pictures:







I finally upgraded almost 2 years ago to a 120 with a sump.

 

[CStrickland]

some good stuff in here: [Melev]

 

[nsxdreams]

My 60g cube made it 22 years using a Marineland Emperor dual biowheel HOB and a canister filter filled with carbon and LR rubble. I had 3 x T12 VHO (75W ea, total 225W) for lighting and a TLF150 GFO reactor. No Skimmer. I was able to keep pretty much anything I wanted other than many SPS corals.

Here's a couple pictures:







I finally upgraded almost 2 years ago to a 120 with a sump.

Looks awesome man! I guess I should mention my tank stayed stable the longest when I had the tetra hang on filter... I'm reading about sump design, just puzzled about the overflow part having no drill. Thank you for sharing.

 

[nsxdreams]

So I've been reading a lot. An overflow will be achieved by an inner box that sits inside the main tank and an outer box that's outside, connected together by some type of u shaped tube. A siphon carries the water flow out. At the bottom of the outer box, a drain of roughly 1 inch tubing will lead to the sump.

Is the tubing primarily hard pvc, or has anyone used flex tubing?

 

[Reef Frog]

From what I see in your pics, your live rock is very close to the glass. This will make glass cleaning difficult with most magnetic cleaners. Also, an open sand bed is valuable for many corals and fish you may wish to keep in the future.

 

[nsxdreams]

Well, I purchased my sump, thanks to Petco's 1 dollar per gallon sale.
20G H:

One step closer!

 

[nsxdreams]

some good stuff in here: [Melev]

Thank you this helped.