Experiment Use of Soil in refugiums (Mud Filters)

daddavis1

New member
After reading a gas spectrometer analysis of MM I have determined that there may be better sources of base material, that is to say material containing lesser amounts of undesirable elements such as Al. Looking into this further, most soils all across the US are difficient in nutrients of one form or another and high in others, so to think there is a magic spot that has soils that can meet all the requirements for coral I don't believe exists.

The primary goal for the soil then changes from supplying all the micronutirents nessesary to denitrification. Hopefully without adding anthing harmfull in the process. Since the disolution of minerals is quite low for most elements, only free ions tied up by the cation exchange capacity of the soil is really what is readily available. I will not go into detail about this aspect.

Therefore I opted to find a suitable substitute for MM locally. Since our primary goal is denitrification we are looking for high silt content which creates a semi boyant substrate.

Using soil survey information gleened from the internet I have found a suitable sorce with 50% silt. About 2-3% organic matter. It was located in a hardwoods forest which are less acidic than softwoods typically. It was full of roots and critters. the bigger ones were removed.

The soil sellected also had a granular structure which I believe may be bennificial even though it impacts how boyant the substrate will be. Sized from gravel to course sand.

This has been placed slowly over the top of the existing mud substrate so as not to bury organisms present. It also did not move the water parameters much when it was added. I did not mix anything else with the soil prior to adding to the system such as buffers or calcium supplements.

Its been in place for one month already. Clams are moving though the substrate, worms are present, the soil is plainly visible in the low light areas of the refugium and is retaining its orginal structure. Nitrate, Nitrite, Phosphate are below the detection limits of the test kits used. The inhabitants SPS,LPS, Soft corals, sponges, truncates, ect. Fish, life in general in the tanks apears to be doing well.

I am in the process of correcting a calcium overdose and will report conditions when Alk and Calcium are at the correct ratios.
 
I see some are watching this. I will continue to update. I would welcome any comments from others using a mud based refugium system for total nitrogen removal. Again my premise for doing this in the first palce rests on the environmental requirements of the bacteria actually doing the work and also the fact that millions of tons of sediment wash into the oceans from terrestrial environments each yr. The ones that settle out are predominatly silts. Clays because of their behavior I believe act as sinks for ions and perhaps are treated as food by marine organisms instead of settling out. More on that later.

It is taking more time than anticipated to pull down the calcium even though some is precipitating on the glass. The silt based mud in the refugium continues to stay loose. Sand stubstrates in the past have cemented when making this type of correction. The substrate in the main display tanks is remaining loose as well. This in part I believe is dues to the density of organisms living in there. I've been dosing for Alkalinity steady to raise it to 11dKh. Calcium remains above 500ppm but is dropping. I could probably speed the process up with water changes using instant ocean salt. Currently using Red Sea Pro which according to Aquarium Pharmicuticals Ca test I have is 520ppm at 1.024 SG at least for the bucket I have.

For the longest time I have been dosing by observation and is why I got into this predicament in the first place so I would advocate dosing only what you can measure. I was amazed to see the Alkalinity at the low end of the acceptable scale I figured it would be alot lower. And with daily additions of Sodium bicarbinate and occassional sodium carbinate to 11dKh seems to be maintaining 8-9dKh between doses. I do not however know how quickly it drops. Other than that everything else seems to be thriving despite the elevated Cal. pH I would have to assume is less than 8.0 I don't have a way to accurately test for this yet.
 
After reading a gas spectrometer analysis of MM

What did you see? I'm not sure what a gas spectrometer is, but a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer would not be a very useful way to analyze mud, IMO.
 
Exactly, a better suited technique would be high performance liquid chromatography - inductively coupled plasma - mass spectrometry (HPLC-IPC-MS).
 
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/mm_analysis.html

The link above is the analysis of mm I am refering to.

Leading me to conclude terrestrial origen and makes sence in the fact that oceans are not closed systems but sinks.

I don't have any pictures yet and I have yet to determine if the soil should be enriched with certain elements before being added to the system such as iron solids and NaBicarbinate.

Dan
 
I don't get what your trying to do.

Mineral Mud is a joke. Look at the Spectro. Its regular silica sand dug up out of some shysters backyard.

Although if you get samples from salty marshes, I imagine you'll see that there sand is indeed alive and teeming with bacteria.

Silt is nutrient based and can be used in a refugium to grow macroalgae and mangrove's, etc...

So what are you trying to accomplish? I'm kinda confused.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11458897#post11458897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by daddavis1
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/mm_analysis.html

The link above is the analysis of mm I am refering to.

Leading me to conclude terrestrial origen and makes sence in the fact that oceans are not closed systems but sinks.

I don't have any pictures yet and I have yet to determine if the soil should be enriched with certain elements before being added to the system such as iron solids and NaBicarbinate.

Dan

While I'm far from an expert, I should imagine that a refugium with significant growths of macroalgaes or higher plants would indeed require significant amounts of iron.

My anecdotal experiences with adding the SeaChem Flourish line of products to refugiums have seemed to indicate that available iron was a limiting factor for growth.

Further, I tried starting refugiums with SeaChem's Flourite and CaribSea's EcoComplete planted aquarium substrates - growth was excellent in these systems, nearly on par with the refugiums receiving bi-weekly supplements of iron, potassium, nitrogen, phosphorous and CO2.

While I'm not certain that topsoil will be the best medium for a refugium, I would say that you're on the right path by searching for an enriched substrate.
 
Aquaticfins were these isolated systems or were they connected to Reef tanks, I would like to know if there was an excess nutrient influx from the plant substrates.
 
Most were reef systems, though two of them were connected to invert/fish holding systems here at the shop.

The substrates seemed pretty inert - we didn't notice any algae blooms in the reef/fish systems connected to them. One of the reasons I say inert is that we observed significantly less of a "growth spurt" in non-rooted algaes/plants than rooted ones.

The liquid/dry chemical dosing did seem to spark algae blooms in perhaps one out of five systems it was used in, but those blooms usually subsided fairly quickly.
 
I was asking becuase I have two bags of caribsea plant substrate laying around, i've been saving for a planted fw tank, maybe they will end up in my new refugium.
 
Update.

Ca, dKh are close to being where they should be. Didn't create a rock in the process Yeah! Using sugar to knock back an algae problem. About 4 tsp for 320 Gal. This is working even without skimming. Cause: a couple times the tank was fed excessively. Phosphate and Nitrate, Nitrite undetectable even before adding the sugar but that can still provide enough for Algae to grow. Still adding amino acids too.

Theory here. Add carbon, add nitrogen sourse = bacteria outcompete algae for phosphate = algae dieback releasing more Carbon ect. Builds bottom of food chain for system. Tie up remaining free nutrients in living tissue. Should also alow poplations in mud to expand also.
 
Back
Top