I have no sump, so I change directly in the tank. I have had the same water change procedure for 4 years. Now in the last 4 months when I change water my fish turn pale, swim in circles or along the sides of the tank in an up and down pattern. After a few hours this stops. I cannot figure out what is wrong. I am matching temp., PH, and salt content. I use proper PH 8.2 on the new water and instant ocean. I change 10 gal. at a time. I cut all power to my tank except the light syphon out the 10 gals. and then pump back the new 10. I mix the water anywhere from 24-48 hours ahead, I use distilled from wal-mart. I drop in a heater and powerhead in a rubbermaid container. I am puzzled. Any ideas?
experts please read, I need help! water changes
- Thread starter r0bin
- Start date
down and outman
New member
I used to use Proper PH 8.2 buffering additive as well. Stopped using it as I was not able to figure out what was in it. Probably high in Borate. When I change out my buddies 55, with no sump, I leave everything running as much as possible. The powerheads are placed deep enough so they aren't exposed to air to keep them from going nuts. Keep everything as normal as possible might help your fish during WC's. If your heater is exposed, I'd cut that off, but that's it. I don't add anything else to his tank and his levels stay good. Try running without it for a while and see what happens.
You might check your tank ph before the WC, to see if any buffer is actually needed. No need to add anything if you don't need to.
I've gone to using 2 part solution to dose my tank. The Alkalinity part also aids in ph control. I use baked baking soda, bake it at 400 degrees for an hour to drive off the carbon dioxide, enhancing it's ability to increase the ph. Baking soda may reduce ph. Plus it's cheaper than a store bought buffer.
Hope this helps.
You might check your tank ph before the WC, to see if any buffer is actually needed. No need to add anything if you don't need to.
I've gone to using 2 part solution to dose my tank. The Alkalinity part also aids in ph control. I use baked baking soda, bake it at 400 degrees for an hour to drive off the carbon dioxide, enhancing it's ability to increase the ph. Baking soda may reduce ph. Plus it's cheaper than a store bought buffer.
Hope this helps.
it sounds like your fish are reacting to something in the change water and as it dilutes out they're settling down. with everything the same for years and then this behavior consistently, i'd suspect some contamination. either a bad batch of salt, or the buffer you're using, or your mix container. maybe someone innocently used one of your buckets to wash the car or mop the floors.
two things i don't like here, one is the water you are using. you have no control over the quality of it, maybe someone cleaned the equipment at walmart's distilled water supplier, or they got a new batch of bottles from china... water is so critical, i'd recommend taking your fate into your own hands and ponying up for an RO unit.
the other thing i don't like is the fact that you're using the water so soon after making it. 24-48 hours is fine in an emergency, but not as a habit. i'd stir it with a powerhead for that long and let it sit for at least a week before using it in general. i don't think this has anything to do with your current situation, but it fits into what my recommendation will be.
you need to get rid of the contamination immediately, and you should protect yourself from having it happen again. i would:
- go get a brand new brute trash can, 20 gallons if you don't have the space for the big one, write SALT WATER ONLY all over it and the lid. get the dolly with casters for it if you can fit that into your space, it makes life a lot easier. get two brutes if you have the space so you can use one just for top off water.
- go get an RO unit. if you get one with an auto shutoff, you can put a float valve in the lid of that trash can so you never have to worry about a flood.
- throw out the proper ph, it's unnecessary
- go get a fresh bucket of salt. if the problem is resolved by all of these actions, throw out the old salt.
good luck robin!
two things i don't like here, one is the water you are using. you have no control over the quality of it, maybe someone cleaned the equipment at walmart's distilled water supplier, or they got a new batch of bottles from china... water is so critical, i'd recommend taking your fate into your own hands and ponying up for an RO unit.
the other thing i don't like is the fact that you're using the water so soon after making it. 24-48 hours is fine in an emergency, but not as a habit. i'd stir it with a powerhead for that long and let it sit for at least a week before using it in general. i don't think this has anything to do with your current situation, but it fits into what my recommendation will be.
you need to get rid of the contamination immediately, and you should protect yourself from having it happen again. i would:
- go get a brand new brute trash can, 20 gallons if you don't have the space for the big one, write SALT WATER ONLY all over it and the lid. get the dolly with casters for it if you can fit that into your space, it makes life a lot easier. get two brutes if you have the space so you can use one just for top off water.
- go get an RO unit. if you get one with an auto shutoff, you can put a float valve in the lid of that trash can so you never have to worry about a flood.
- throw out the proper ph, it's unnecessary
- go get a fresh bucket of salt. if the problem is resolved by all of these actions, throw out the old salt.
good luck robin!
crsswift70
Active member
If in distilled water you mean the Culligan water center they have in the front, quit using it. I've had to use that water several times in "emergencies". The first two times were fine, the third caused a tank crash and algae bloom. The quality of the water can't be verified. All it takes is a tech to check off the little boxes and not actually do anything to kill your tank. I don't have a RO unit myself, but i go to the LFS in town and get my top off and water change water.
crsswift70 - No it actually is distilled water on the shelf in the gallon.
drstupid - I use the proper PH b/c when you use distilled water since it basically is pure, just adding salt mix will not buffer the ph high enough, it only goes up to about 7.8. The PH in my tank is about 8.3.
ritten - no I have been using it for years
I appreciate everyone responding. I am going to take this suggestions and try to figure out what it is. Much appreciated.
drstupid - I use the proper PH b/c when you use distilled water since it basically is pure, just adding salt mix will not buffer the ph high enough, it only goes up to about 7.8. The PH in my tank is about 8.3.
ritten - no I have been using it for years
I appreciate everyone responding. I am going to take this suggestions and try to figure out what it is. Much appreciated.
robin, i do think you need to consider contamination as a strong possibility, given the reaction of your fish when you make a change (classic for this situation), and the consistency of your routine otherwise.
i am not dissing using buffer, under normal circumstances it's harmless and its use is totally up to your discretion. i am suggesting that you may be poisoning your fish and offering a plan of action to stop doing that and preventing it from happening in the future.
please consider getting some more opinions, perhaps email bob fenner's crew at wetwebmedia. i would not suggest doing another water change until you can rule this out.
i am not dissing using buffer, under normal circumstances it's harmless and its use is totally up to your discretion. i am suggesting that you may be poisoning your fish and offering a plan of action to stop doing that and preventing it from happening in the future.
please consider getting some more opinions, perhaps email bob fenner's crew at wetwebmedia. i would not suggest doing another water change until you can rule this out.
Robin,
Instant Ocean from experience is running Alkalinity higher typically about 12 DKH, buy adding buffer you may be shocking the tank with something much higher. I would test the ALK. Also try shacking up the salt mix real good some times the smaller particles can settle to the bottom of the bucket so when you get near the end the ALK can be off the chart.
What are the AlK levels in the tank before adding the new water?
?? do you see any calcium precipitate in you skimmer after the water change.
Instant Ocean from experience is running Alkalinity higher typically about 12 DKH, buy adding buffer you may be shocking the tank with something much higher. I would test the ALK. Also try shacking up the salt mix real good some times the smaller particles can settle to the bottom of the bucket so when you get near the end the ALK can be off the chart.
What are the AlK levels in the tank before adding the new water?
?? do you see any calcium precipitate in you skimmer after the water change.
pledosophy
Active member
The pH of the distilled should be at 7, the same as RODI. IME RODI water when mixed with salt and aerated will raise to a proper pH IME.
How long are you mixing the water for before changes? How much flow is in the mixing container?
If you wash the ixig container inbetween uses, what are you washing it with?
pledosophy - I use a power head in a 19 gallon rubbermaid container that is about a 275 gph. I always wait 24 hours in between mixing and using sometimes more like 48. I rinse the container with tap in between.
davo - I have not seen any calcium precipitate.
drstupid - even though change water only buffers up to about 7.8 and my tank is at 8.3 is it ok to use that? I thought if the ph were that much lower it on the water change water it would shock the tank? This is why I use it. I would be happy not to use it if I do not have too.
davo - I have not seen any calcium precipitate.
drstupid - even though change water only buffers up to about 7.8 and my tank is at 8.3 is it ok to use that? I thought if the ph were that much lower it on the water change water it would shock the tank? This is why I use it. I would be happy not to use it if I do not have too.
I appreciate everyones help here. This is a serious problem. I am trying to address everyone to answer questions to try to get to the bottom of this. I think I am going to start by not using the buffer. I have been using it for years, but I guess this bottle could be contaminated. I really think that could be a possibility. Is there anything else I should be rinsing my container out with other that tap?
i'd also get a fresh bucket of salt and replace your current mix container, and for your next mix get the water from another source (LFS perhaps).
aerating will get the PH up faster, letting it sit for a week will do it too. 48 hours is too soon to use your mix under normal circumstances, i would aerate mine if i had to use it that quickly.
start reading here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/watrqualmar.htm
aerating will get the PH up faster, letting it sit for a week will do it too. 48 hours is too soon to use your mix under normal circumstances, i would aerate mine if i had to use it that quickly.
start reading here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/watrqualmar.htm
