Exploring a possible In Tank Treatment for the cure of RTN

Your temperature is WAYYY too high... corals will tolerate up to 84 for only a limited period of time..

BUY a chiller.

Drop your alk to 8, natural seawater is closer to 7.5 -8 and KEEP it there... Alk swings are BAD.

I was frustrated for mo's with my problem.... Until I talked to Eric Fragfarmer.com, he gave me the insight.

Use turbo calc to get you calc up, and turn your co2 bottle off at night. If you have a kalk reactor turn it off....

My corals have STOPPED rtning and are starting to grow back.

But your temp is WAYYY too high..
 
I meant get a bigger chiller.... I use a 1/4 hp on my 225 and could use a 1/2, put ice in ziploc bags to drop the temp a degree or two. float em on top.

The temp swings shouldnt be happening with a powerful enough chiller.... mine has been running 18 hrs a day sometimes, and I have been keeping my temp at 81. but 78 in the winter.
 
cool, cool, cool. I ordered a bigger chiller last night. I have been trying to keep the alk around 10, so I will stop dosing Salifert pH/KH buffer.

The algae has been a pest and I have been working very hard to rid the problem. The good news is that it is finally on the way out.

I'm not quite read to quit the Prodibio, but I am getting closer to that decision. Last night was a cool night and the water temp is back down to 78. Hopefully I will get the new chiller early next week.
 
I don't think by itself 84 is too high(risky, yes, only for experienced reefers), but when you are dosing vodka you have bacteria blooms, which use up oxygen, and the increased metabolism of other tank inhabitants from the higher temps leaves you with a tank gasping for o2 imo.

Yesterday while rearranging i had some corals out of the water for a while, and after putting them back in the water I had a stag rtn half of its tissue on me, but the polyps are still there. It lost the tissure within 20 minutes of being back in the tank, so id say it was rtn, today half has great pe, and I am confident it will regrow over the bare skeleton. I am certain a bit of a low alk combined with repeated moving around in a short time led to the rtn, but it halted on its own. I have seen this before (ORA chips frag lost all of the tissue but polyps remained), and have seen an acro completely recover in a short time. IMO the best course of action is to leave the coral where it is, make sure it is getting good flow, and do a water change. ill get some pics of the bare skeleton with tiny polyps, and hopefully document the recovery.
 
regarding RTN, the sprung book you quote is VERY dated. I own it and the first volume, and have read both, so I am familiar with them.

RTN is simply the death of the coral in a quick way.

there are only so many ways for an acro to die.
 
I am a big fan of Probidio and have had great results with it. I would not give it up just yet either. Personally I have had corals die at 85 degrees. I think the bigger chiller was a wise investment. Good luck and please post your progress.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7823125#post7823125 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Big E
Good luck with your test, but imo you need to fix what's wrong with your tank conditions. RTN isn't a disease but a result of something wrong with your system.

Find out what's causing the problem instead of treating the dying corals.
Totally agree with said above, find the problem and correct it, will save you a lot of headaches in the long run not to mention expensive corals.
 
I did not read this whole thread so if this was said before forgive me. You have way too much going on in your tank at once to be able to track the cause of the RTN or Stn. Dosing vodka I think is a bad way to go, you can increase your bacteria to plague proportions which with the high temps will tax your oxygen levels and if your salinity is is too high it also leaves less room for oxygen which again limits it. If I may suggest stop everything and go back to square one. learn what and where your water parameters should be at and try to keep them there for stability is far more important for acros. Phosphate of .1 in my opinion is too high for acros also. I do not want to sound overbearing here just trying to help.
Take care
Michael Mota
 
Yes I appreciate the help. The PO4 is .01 not .1ppm. I posted that from recall rather than looking at the logbook. It was in error. I tested the water today and all checks are better. The STN of the nana has advanced slightly since the last pics, but I do not intend to repeat the Lugols treatment at this time. I still believe it helped, but at this point no negative effects have occured and I do not want to press my luck.

The GSP also have not shown any negative effects from the I2, which in my previous experience from dosing it as an iodine supplement, it has. So I will try to avaoid the temptation.

Here are todays test results:

pH 8.24; Temp 79; ORP 404; dKH 9.3; SG 1.025; Ca 425; PO4 .03; Mg 1350.

I will trim back more algae today too, although new growth has been retarted greatly. Good signs, thanks again for allt he input, I do appreciate it.
 
Oh, I think I will stop the Vodaka, but will not give in on Prodibio yet. BTW, I believe it would be difficult to just stop dosing these products cold-turkey. Many have tried it before and have experiened major crashes. I will wen off the Vodka. I am at 4cc daily doses. Will go to 3cc / 2cc/ 1cc over the next few weeks.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7832790#post7832790 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by twon8
I don't think by itself 84 is too high(risky, yes, only for experienced reefers), but when you are dosing vodka you have bacteria blooms, which use up oxygen, and the increased metabolism of other tank inhabitants from the higher temps leaves you with a tank gasping for o2 imo.
Definitely something to think about ... and combine that with intense light, perhaps imperfect water flow in just one section of the coral - things start to shut down IMO.
That, depending on circumstances/stressors, seems to affect other areas of the colony.

I've gotten lucky the few times my tank accidentally got too warm. It's hit 86 twice without losses, personally if things are getting warm I'd decrease the photoperiod [as that's both heating the coral, along with the water] and be sure you've got good [not excessive, good] flow esp around the bases, internal areas of the coral.
It doesn't need to be blowing in the wind, but small areas of low flow have been the places where I've had recession/etc more commonly IME. Unsure of your lights, but with high enough power + lower flow would concern me.

In this case, I would consider setting up a `holding tank' that has enough rock to maintain the corals bioload fine, good flow, doesn't need to have huge light IMO ... and if something has a problem, frag the good parts, try to keep the remainder of the coral in the holding tank. Then you can try a number of treatment options without worry :)

I don't like `in tank treatment' one bit. Some do, some don't ... but while I've done that option in the past, it's pretty `final doom prevention' for me.

If you don't agree, good. Life is no fun if folks can't politely disagree about things, nor if folks can't learn and change their ideas.


Search around, there's the treatment with chloropheno-something as well as discussion of iodine dips as `treatment for RTN'. I tend to see RTN as a `shut down reaction' and thus more of a symptom than an exact diagnosis. And in that thinking, then a `treatment' for RTN is like a pill to cure the cold, cancer, bad knees, and depression all in one.
Or in this case, bacterial issues, instability/chemistry issues, import/major-water-conditions-change issues, poor flow/lighting/etc ... and perhaps a few of the other common variances in our tanks - all in one.

But in that light, perhaps such a dip, or other treatment might be more likely to be a good idea, given the vodka/prodibio which is targeted to affect bacterial populations in the tank.
Combine that with a few stressors like temp variance [corresponding O2/other chemistry variance] - and any deviation from the norm might trigger something.

Iodine does seriously affect bacterial populations, and given high temps = often lower O2 levels ... affecting bacteria might be a good thing in this case. Might not, you never know ... but in your case, I would consider flow, lowering photoperiod when it's so hot [neverming controlling temp] as important, but bacteria as an unknown, possibly significant, factor.

And thus, while I may generally dismiss such treatments for RTN, in this case, I'd pursue the papers on the subject. There's a thread around here in the last few months discussion RTN treatments - if you try and can't find it, LMK.
A few ideas to try, and if things are going badly, perhaps worth it. Not in every case, but with your dosing to affect bacterial levels, it's hard to rule out bacteria as an issue [and thus reducing to zero usage of such systems, until things are long stable IMO] + treatment.

Just a heap of opinion on the subject. I don't claim to be any expert on the subject, haven't had a huge amount of personal experience with this, and I live in a house with a wife who kept corals 5 years before I had any clue [others have kept corals before I knew they weren't a plant, and have taught me a ton] ... take it as editorial.
And please, feel free to disagree. I often learn a thing or two from it ... and as you don't control how I keep my tank, you can think any way you'd like :D
 
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