Extra-Large Tank Upgrade Project to begin

alvin said:
Here is one I just had sent to me.

54565House_009.jpg

Is that your tank Alvin?
 
Ok, visited with Jason at Aquatics and Exotics yesterday. I feel much better about my overflows and closed loop, pumps that I have planned.

The overflows are basically just 2" PVC pipes running thru the back wall of the tank, they come out a few inches, then a 90 degree elbow is installed, with a strainer on top of that, approx 4 to 6 inches from the top of the tank.

This will be the same design I will be using, basically I will have 4 of the overflows built into the tank. Two on the left and two on the right, each side will combine into a tee and then go into the individuals sumps.
 
Sixxer, yes that's my tank. It utilizes the same overflow system as Jason's 2200. You can see the overflows in the picture. He found some nice black PVC for this option. It should be up and running as soon as I get back from MD. I wasn't in a huge hurry to get it running anyway since I'll be gone all month. It has two 1.5 in drains and 4 1 in. returns. Also a 100 gallon sump directly behind it in the fish room. I have never seen anyone use this type of overflow other than Jason, but it seems to work great without any noise whatsoever. He had mine running while I wasn't there, but one of the fittings I had installed from my previous tank was leaking (nice work on my part), so he shut it down. I told him we'll take care of it when I get back. John
 
sixxer,

I noticed you are going with concrete and thought this might be worth looking into. It is called Xypex - www.xypex.com.

Background - I recently purchased a house and there was a slight leak in a basement wall. I had an environmental inspector guy come out to look at it and he recommended a product called Xypex. It can be installed on walls with existing leaks. Their literature said it has been approved for use with potable water and foodstuffs. Part of the specs from their sebsite are below.

Bona fides for the envirnonmental guy - Second one I had out to the house. It had been shut in for a couple of years and there was some slight mold trouble that the realtor's inspector found and wanted a small fortune to fix. I called a friend of mine who is a commercial realtor. He put me in touch with a commercial inspector (does airports, hospitals, large buildings, etc.). This guy fixed the minor problems I had for just a few bucks in a couple of hours (about 5-10% of the other guy's bid and the other guy said he wasn't sure this would get it all) and told me about this Xypex stuff. He swears by it.

The only reservation I have is the part where it says it passes vapor. Allows the wall to breath without leaking. Not sure I understand this but it isn't the first time my understanding has been lacking. :) I called the company to talk about a salt water application and mine. They referred me to a local rep I left a message with and will post with more info when I get it.

Hope this helps,
Charles



From the Xypex site:
Noticed the website was copyrighted and didn't want to do anything that might upset them or get RC in trouble so here is the link - http://www.xypex.com/specs/spec-data.html. Notice that it is approved by EPA and Agriculture Canada for use with potable water and in contact with foodstuffs. Says it can be applied to interior ofr exterior walls and will work after the leak has already occured. Do not understand the part about letting the wall breath while still retaining water though nor how it would affect use on a concrete reef tank. They do show it used with swimming pools though.

Did a little more looking for the swimming pool apllications and found that it was used at the Shed Aquarium in Chicago - http://www.xypex.com/projects/projects.php?mode=details&project=65. It says they did 120,000 ft2 in the 5 main exhibition tanks, including (if I read it correctly) a 2 million gallon tank housing their Beluga whales. Guess it will work with salt tanks.
Also check out
 
Thanks Chask,

I will look into this!!!!!


Got the holes drilled in the floor to start my re-bar!:D
 
These photos are running way behind schedule, but here is the basement nook as it was before the carpet & toys came out!
basement3.jpg
 
Spoke to the factory rep today about Xypex. He confirmed what the website said. He indicated that the add mix version might be better for aquarium application as the stuff is mixed in with the concrete and therefore goes all the way through. The coating application has a penetration of about a foot.

Hope this helps
Charles
 
Aric,

Let me know when you need some labor. I am all to excited to a have an ocean just down the street!

Brian
 
Just a note, The total linear measurement for your planned overflows is about 25 ". Make sure you have enough drains to handle the planned return pump size.
Sounds kick ***.
 
DUFFY said:
Aric,

Let me know when you need some labor. I am all to excited to a have an ocean just down the street!

Brian

Duffy, I will let you know when the "Concrete Mixing Party" is going to be held!:D

P.S. - Leave the Speedo at home!:lol:


Chask - I called my regional rep. about Xypex today and haven't gotten a return call yet. I am also looking at Sweetwater Epoxy, and System III Epoxy.

Birdman - I planned on having 4 drains, probably will be 3" each.
 
Aric,

the setup looks quite impressive. I look forward to getting reports on what you are happy with and what you would change.

I talked with Paul at Oceans Motions before I ordered mine. He encouraged me to consider the 4 way instead of the 8 way. The reason I chose the 4 way instead of the 8 way, was for redundancy. If one failed, I could turn off one pump, replace the unit and although I would be down one unit, its impact would be less than if an 8 way failed.

Currently, I am planning on using 4x Oceans Motions 4 ways on 4 Sequence Hammerhead pumps with 1.5" thin walled pvc.

Also, I am going to put in a generator and two of the closed loops, the main pump and heater will be setup to run should I lose power. Something to think about in case of an ice storm. And being a contractor you probably get some sick discount that I can only dream about. :)


Your system is obviously much larger than my own, you might see if you can get a mock up of the 1.5" pipes. With that kind of flow, unless you have a couple of outputs, my concern would be one of velocity rather than flow. Would you be creating a danger for the fish as the water "rockets" out of the pvc? Not quite sure, a question perhaps for Sequence. You might give them a call and chat with Ben, he has always been very helpful.

Good luck and keep us all informed.

Kip
 
sixxer said:
The overflows are basically just 2" PVC pipes running thru the back wall of the tank,

If you're going with 3 inch pipes, then it's about 38 inches. I'd say that would be sufficient if you are using closed loops.

Man, I wish I lived closer ;)
 
I've got a real nice pipe flow program on my computer. I may be able to help with sizing etc. I could easily give you velocity numbers if I had the pumps flow rate for a given feet of head. Just use mass flow (gph)= density x Velocity x outlet area

Let me know.
 
I'm telling you the 2" pipes will handle the flow just fine, but if you want to go 3" for peace of mind, that's cool.
 
alvin said:
I've got a real nice pipe flow program on my computer. I may be able to help with sizing etc. I could easily give you velocity numbers if I had the pumps flow rate for a given feet of head. Just use mass flow (gph)= density x Velocity x outlet area

Let me know.

Alvin, I am looking at using Sequence Hammerhead and Seq. 8400 pumps - The 8400's would be used for the two closed loops, and would only have a max of 3 feet from pump to the back of the tank, and then running across a six foot spray bar (instead of a bunch of seperate holes)

Kip - Thanks for the insight, I originally was going to go with Oceanmotions on the closed loops (and still may do one).
But then I saw the spraybar set-up on Phisybusiness's two 500 gallon stock tubs, and thought that would be a good route for me to go.

I wish I had one of those programs where I could draw a diagram of my tank and all the plumbing like I have seen on so many others posts here!!! That would make it alot easier to discuss.
 
Tang - I agree that the 2" would be sufficient. In discussion with Sequence, I discovered that the friction loss, while still present is virtually negligible on 2" and higher pipe.

For me, the only reason to go to a larger pipe diameter is one of flow versus velocity. If the 2" "rockets" the water into the tank instead of a broad movement, I would go with larger pipe. If not, then the 2" would be fine.

Aric - The only question, one Serdar can probably answer, is do the spray bars clog up in time and then maintenance is required.

If you find a "moron" proof drawing program I would love to see it too. Not terribly computer literate here.

Kip
 
I have a couple of quick comments. I'm sorry if this has been talked about, but I didn't read completely through the thread.
Make sure you use something to seal the concrete very well, otherwise the saltwater will penetrate it and corrode the rebar.
Secondly, there should be no problem insterting the plumbing, or sleeves for the plumbing, before pouring the concrete. The problem with coming back and drilling is you don't exactly know where the rebar is, and you may end up drilling a couple of times before you find and open spot. Also, by setting the pipe first, you can add a bar on each side of the opening, to reinforce it.

Otherwise, sounds like a fun project!
 
CH - I actually have decided to lay the pipes before I pour the concrete for the exact reason you described. And I am looking at 3 different 2 part epoxy's to seal the concrete with after the pour.

Kip - I'll let you know if I find that program! LOL!!! I have thought about the possibility of clogs in the spray bar, that is why I want each eductor I have connected to it, to be screw on type, or some other sort of method that would allow me to take it appart to service in case of clogs.
 
Sixxer,

If you have any interest in Xypex at all you might want to look at their premix product. The stuff you apply after the pour only penetrates the concrete about a foot. They have a premix that goes in with the cement as you mix up the concrete. Then the water barrier goes all the way through.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your setup. :thumbsup:

Charles
 
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