eye fluke

[Juice It]

I noticed this am that a week old Flame Hawk had a fluke on its eye and I was going to fresh water dip it today to remove it. Now, it has fallen off on its own and I am wondering if I should leave it alone or still dip it. None of the other fish seem to have any visable so what should I do?


Thanks,

Jeff

 

[LargeAngels]

It probably didn't fall off, but moved onto the body of the fish. About the only time they are visible is when they are on the eyes. A FW dip causes the adults to fall off, but doesn't kill the eggs. I would treat all the fish with Prazipro in a QT tank.

 

[Don-Coraleone]

or a fresh water dip will work.

 

[mustang2021]

a fresh water dip will help with terminating any that are on the fish but if you return him to the dispaly the odds are that there are still flukes in there and will reinfect the fish so consentrate on treting the display

 

[JHemdal]

LargeAngels and Mustand2021 are correct, a freshwater dip will do nothing to cure the fish - it will only knock off perhaps 90% of the flukes on the fish, but do nothing for any fluke eggs in the tank! Sure it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to see all the dead flukes in the dip water, but it simply will not cure the fish.

Flame hawks are notorius for arriving with Neobenedenia flukes. The one you saw on the eye is just the tip of the iceberg - you need to treat with praziquantel. If you do this in a quarantine tank, you will have the continuing problem because these flukes are egglayers, and after a week of the hawkfish being in there, I can guarantee you that there will be some eggs in your display tank. If any of the fish in your display tank are adequate hosts for Neobenedenia, the infection cycle will continue. Of course, dosing your display tank has its own issues if it is a reef tank. This could end up being a pretty big problem.
I was co-author on a paper that gives an overview of types of fish that can serve as hosts. I can't pull the paper from my files right now, but here is the link to the citation:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1540815


JHemdal


p.s. - I was only a co-author because I dealt with Neobenedenia on garden eels (a new host record) so I sent them samples and they put my name on the paper....

 

[kevin2000]

Query

Will the flukes in the DT die off on their own without a fish host (similar to ich) if so - how long does it take. If not - how does one safely remove flukes from a reef display tank - to my knowledge the common fluke meds don't want to put "reef safe" on their labels.

 

[JHemdal]

Kevin,

I don't know, but it is at least 14 days, as the eggs can take that long to hatch. I've heard rumors about the eggs having the ability to go into diapause and sort of wait until there is a host, but I've not seen that myself (that I recognized anyway). I don't know how long the oncomiracidia (larva) can live without a host.

That said, I use two praziquantel treatments at 0.20 ppm 14 days apart, so a total of 28 days, and this usually takes care of the problem. To me, that implies that any oncomiracidia hatching out during the second week will be killed by the prazi, and that the eggs must not hatch out later because we end the treatment with a massive water change (diluting the remaining prazi). Seems to me that in the absence of any host, those same hatchling flukes would also die. I'd still give it at least 45 days (grin).

Jay

 

[kevin2000]

Jay

Thanks for the info.

I always give a fish a formalin bath prior to QT and have been amazed at what falls off an otherwise healthy looking fish during this procedure. I assume an hour long formalin bath is sufficient to kill off fluke & eggs - tanks have always appeared to be fluke free.

 

[LargeAngels]

In The Science of Fish Health Management ( Dr. John B Gratzek and Ms Janice R. Matthews) they recommend a series of 3 treatments one week apart.

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13731129#post13731129 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LargeAngels
In The Science of Fish Health Management ( Dr. John B Gratzek and Ms Janice R. Matthews) they recommend a series of 3 treatments one week apart.

Interesting ... apparently one prolonged formalin bath is effective for minor cases.

 

[JHemdal]

Kevin,

We used to give new fish a preventative dip prior to moving them to a QT tank - I even had a triage system set up for this - tank the fish in that, hit them with formalin (or sometimes FW dip), then move them to a QT system for final treatment. The problem was that in some cases, with shipments that had been delayed or were otherwise a bit shaky, the triage method would greatly increase the mortality rate. I'm comfortable now, just treating flukes later on IF they come into play. Just so that others understand - 150ppm formalin for one hour is NOT sufficient to kill Neobenedenia eggs, and you must move the fish to a new, uninfected tank for this to have any benefit.
There isn't such a thing as a "minor" case of Neobenedenia - they are either present or absent. In 30+ years I have never been able to eliminate this pest with a single - whole tank formalin bath of any reasonable duration or concentration.

Largeangels, We used to use that 3x dose over three weeks, but Prazi is expensive when you are talking larger tanks, and the water changes at the end of each dose was expensive as well. My two-treatment method gives 28 days of a medicating dosage (14 days plus 14 days) versus the same for his three treatment method (21 days of treatments, plus one week on the end). My method only requires 2/3's the amount of prazi and half the amount of saltwater for water changes.

Jay

 

[kevin2000]

Jay

I haven't done stocking for a while but I recall I have used 0.6 mL per gallon when I give a formalin bath. I keep the water well aerated /temperature controlled and I think the fish have responded better than the FW dips and I suspect I am biased for formalin because of prior nasty experience with Brook. Not sure whether its luck or dosage/duration but the baths I have performed seem to be sufficient.

 

[Big E]

Sorry for the hijack but I'm a bit stumped with a few new butterflies I have in QT.

They started the gill scratching, head shaking, & quick sudden darts a few days ago.

I wan't sure it was flukes or first signs of ich. Anyways I've since dropped the salinity for hypo over the weekend.

Yesterday I was still seeing the same symptoms so I added a Prazi-pro treatment. They seem to be getting worse.

Breathing isn't heavy yet but they aren't moving around much or hunting/pecking for food like before.
How long should it take for the fish to show relief from the Prazi treatment?

I'm considering doing a formalin bath, but I'm concerned whether the Prazi is working & they will be going back into the same QT tank.

 

[JHemdal]

Kevin,

You're talking to the self-proclaimed "King" of formalin treatments here(grin). It was my treatment of choice for many things. I even had a Hach formalin test kit. My first experiences with prazi were not successful, so I held out with formalin for many years afterwards. I've seen the light and we've had a gallon of formalin here, unused for about five years now (gotta call the chemical disposal team and get rid of that someday!).
Tthe 0.6ml per gallon of formalin works out to be the standard "166ppm" treatment that has been around for many years. I usually prefer 150ppm to err on the side of safety, but with coldwater you can go much higher. For any of those, the treatment duration is supposed to be one hour....but that is one hour until the fish is in clear water, not "start the water change after an hour".

Jay
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