Fallow period for cryptocaryon irritans (ich)
- Thread starter snorvich
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bellis31
New member
Treating with copper and going fallow are not the same thing, copper kills the parasite while the fish are in QT but you cant use copper in your DT so you must wait out the fallow period to insure that your DT is ich free, with no fish in the DT the ich will die off it just takes a long time.
It's all a pain in the arse but it has to be done.
Thanks, I understand why it needs to be fallow. Copper only kills one life stage of ich, if they are sitting in the other stages (up to 72 days, as stated above) we are only killing those that hatch during the 4 weeks of copper treatment. What about those that hatch after 4 weeks, (Im talking in the QT/HT, not DT).
Yes, that is correct.
hvacman250
New member
Steve, can you clarify this, please?
holdyourlight
New member
I also REALLY would like to know the answer to this please
The issue is the longest known hatch time is 72 days. With no fish hosts available, the 99.9 percentile solution is 9 weeks. That is REALLY the answer.
hvacman250
New member
Steve, after reading this and re-reading, are my thoughts correct:
If we go fallow in the main tank for 10 weeks (70 days), we are getting the one-in-a-million tomont that goes 72 days in the sand. The "freak" cyst. Shouldnt we even go 11 weeks? (11 weeks x 7 days = 77 days)
By treating with copper we would not kill the freak tomont that went 72 days but will kill 99% of them in 4 weeks because most dont encyst for 4 weeks. Thats why its suggested to observe for at least 4 weeks after copper; to ensure one of the freak cysts didnt survive copper.
Am I right or even more confused?
If we go fallow in the main tank for 10 weeks (70 days), we are getting the one-in-a-million tomont that goes 72 days in the sand. The "freak" cyst. Shouldnt we even go 11 weeks? (11 weeks x 7 days = 77 days)
By treating with copper we would not kill the freak tomont that went 72 days but will kill 99% of them in 4 weeks because most dont encyst for 4 weeks. Thats why its suggested to observe for at least 4 weeks after copper; to ensure one of the freak cysts didnt survive copper.
Am I right or even more confused?
souperman
Member
From what I understand it does not matter if there are unhatched tomonts in the QT tank, as soon as they hatch they will be killed by the meds and will not infect the fish. So anything on the fish is killed within 4 weeks and it can't be re-infected because the water is medicated. Is this accurate?
hvacman250
New member
You're missing the point. The medication had been removed after 4 weeks.
If an infected fish is put into the tank and copper was added, all the free swimming Ich would die. We leave copper in the tank for 4 weeks. After 4 weeks, we remove the copper.
What if one of the cysts was dormant for 72 days? It was immune to the copper, and now that it has hatched, there is no copper in the tank to kill it.
The person said if its possible for an Ich cyst to go dormant and be immune to copper for 72 days, shouldnt we treat with copper, or hypo, for 72 days?
jamesbaur13
Apsiring Alhcohlolic
EDIT: post was a bit off topic, decided to make another thread.
Sorry.
Sorry.
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seahorsedreams
New member
We had a fish in treatment for 2 months. Tank was fallow for 3. Put him back in the DT and BOOM. Zero chance of treatment error.
I was lucky enough to get the extended version. :-(
I was lucky enough to get the extended version. :-(
Urchinhead
New member
Renee-
Long time! Hope all is well! Was this a "cold" water tank by chance? Or was there a possibility of cross infection because of a rock etc. that you put in the tank?
Long time! Hope all is well! Was this a "cold" water tank by chance? Or was there a possibility of cross infection because of a rock etc. that you put in the tank?
Urchinhead
New member
Renee-
Long time! Hope all is well! Was this a "cold" water tank by chance? Or was there a possibility of cross infection because of a rock etc. that you put in the tank?
Long time! Hope all is well! Was this a "cold" water tank by chance? Or was there a possibility of cross infection because of a rock etc. that you put in the tank?
jcw
Active member
seahorsedreams
New member
I can see by your double post, Urchin, you are finding RC kind of slow as well. I'm finding it takes forever to load a page. Anyone else?
It's great to "see" you. Greg and I went over the case a 1000 times. There was nothing brought into the tank. I'm a log keeper..... it's how I roll at work and it carries over onto this hobby. It was also essential when we were breeding seahorses. But this was a FOWLR; when ya set it up, you're kindda done. Reefs you tend to ticker with and add stuff. We even alcohol up in between tanks and every one has separate feeding sticks and supplies. At the time I was pondering a resistant strain. One that beat treatment that was still on the fish when he went back into his fallow tank. But that really wasn't logical. There are strains reported to be more infective, but not being more resistant to proven treatments.
Then I'm reading that there can indeed extended encapsulation times. That sounded logical. Successful treatment. Not long enough fallow period. That's what I personally think.
Oh..... no, not one of the cold tanks. Chiller set a 76-77.
Didn't we use to have spell check here? I'm going to have to reread this a 100 times to fix all the typos.
It's great to "see" you. Greg and I went over the case a 1000 times. There was nothing brought into the tank. I'm a log keeper..... it's how I roll at work and it carries over onto this hobby. It was also essential when we were breeding seahorses. But this was a FOWLR; when ya set it up, you're kindda done. Reefs you tend to ticker with and add stuff. We even alcohol up in between tanks and every one has separate feeding sticks and supplies. At the time I was pondering a resistant strain. One that beat treatment that was still on the fish when he went back into his fallow tank. But that really wasn't logical. There are strains reported to be more infective, but not being more resistant to proven treatments.
Then I'm reading that there can indeed extended encapsulation times. That sounded logical. Successful treatment. Not long enough fallow period. That's what I personally think.
Oh..... no, not one of the cold tanks. Chiller set a 76-77.
Didn't we use to have spell check here? I'm going to have to reread this a 100 times to fix all the typos.
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seahorsedreams
New member
souperman
Member
I assumed the fish would be removed while copper was still in the tank. With my situation I have left my fish in copper the entire 9 weeks the dt has been fallow. If you have a clean tank to move them to 4 weeks would be enough to kill off the ich on the fish.
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Urchinhead
New member
Yeah. I thought it was just me. Good to have confirmation.
Cheers. We need to kick you know who in the you know what and try to revive you know which site so we can have a get together again!
Yep. Me too. But for different yet strangely similar reasons now that my brief has changed from what I did before to what I do now. Takes me back to the bad old days where if you didn't follow the correct procedure every time all the time including logging someone (possibly you) died.
Its actually somewhat possible when you think about it. The strain you had could have been moderately resistant to hypo-salinity comes to mind as an example. I seem to recall something about the overall efficacy of hypo treatment being markedly less than the other treatments, even with strict adherence to protocol...
I also remember There was reference to so called "MDR" (using the term loosely) strains when I was doing my original research on the subject. It was a really big deal in the commercial aquafarming sector and for the most part in the "fresh water" segment but it wasn't fully substantiated, only theorized but that was several years ago and things may have changed since...
I saw this as well. There was reference to it as well when I was researching the topic way back when but it was usually written off as being very very rare. Possible but rare. Numbers I saw were in the 99.97% range for die off at the 8 week mark if my memory serves. Perhaps you just got unlucky...?
Either way I hope for the best for your fish friend! Have you thought about an extended copper/formalin regimen? Like going after MDR-TB...
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