mandarinfanatic
New member
I am very fortunate I have an lfs that does not go near copper. holds my fish till I am ready for them and serves coffee too!
Fallow period for cryptocaryon irritans (ich)
- Thread starter snorvich
- Start date
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Serves coffee? More LFS should adopt similar customer care type activities.
mandarinfanatic
New member
sometimes even orders in lunch!
Cujo13
New member
I was told last weekend by a LFS that they keep their tanks at 0.15 to 0.25 copper levels not Cupramine. The odd thing is that some of their fish they were selling had white spots and others were flashing. I did not buy any. These could have been the newest additions. But it made me think, is this a good LFS to buy from or bad? Another LFS store in another town told me on a Thursday that they QT up to 4 weeks depending on the fish. The gentleman did not realize I was in on a Friday 2 weeks prior and watched a new shipment of fish going straight into the selling tanks. Only TRUST yourself.
LouisianaReefer
New member
I have followed the advice and I am assured that my tank is ich-free for almost a year now. I also started 72 day QT periods for all incoming coral frags. Thanks for all of your advice on this essential thread!
Hey snorvich, I noticed this post is on here twice. Once from 2011 and this one from 2014. I saw the first one says 6 weeks will give you a 95% of being ich free while the 2014 says 6 weeks gives you a 99.8% chance. Which is more accurate, my qt is getting cloudy and acting up so I may need to get my clowns out of there sooner. I'm fallow six weeks as of today so it'll be 8 by the time they are done with TTM. (Happened backwards I know, TTM will be first next time). Thanks.
jbvdhp
Active member
My QT was cloudy, still is a bit. It's a bacterial bloom, and since I cut back on feeding, the cloudiness has subsided. Are you overfeeding like I was? On one of the QT tanks I have (running 3), it was cloudy too, used some poly filter and it's clear as day.
sorry for long post. Background first, then it gets to ich:
I am a total rookie, but my reef has been running for 8 weeks or so. I have a nice selection of corals and almost all of the 20+ 'pieces' that I have seem to be doing fine. They're awesome. I have Ecotech Radion Gen3's and also plenty of waterflow. 200 gallon DT and 75 gallon sump. My water testing shows no trites, trates and 0 ammonia. I think I jumped the gun on adding fish though, because 3 nice tangs didn't make it more than 2 weeks. Alkalinity is good, phosphates acceptable, salinity at 1.025. I found it strange to lose 3 fish overnight when there was very limited amounts of white spots, but some visible spots for sure. It also just happens that I had put in a rose anemone the day before, which possibly could have stung the fish but I have no clue. LFS didn't mention anything on that anemone.
Ok, I admit it, in spite of all I read, I didn't QT well enough and I assume that's why I'm in trouble now. At the LFS, the fish looked great. I only blame myself for my impatience, which is rare. To blame to myself that is. Here's my plan and please comment and correct for what you see is wrong:
I set up 2 QT's: 1 80 gallon tank which will go to about 2/3 fill. Also have a 20 gallon. I'm going to do several water changes daily on the DT and use the "discarded DT water" as QT water. Ill let them run for a few days, the 20 gallon will be filled sooner than the 80; 20 gallon tomorrow. Then I will pull all fish out of the DT, which isn't many, but are these: a valued purple tang, 4 small chromis and a cardinal. In QT's ill use a magnum 350 filter on the 80 and a HOT (Hang on Tank) magnum on the 20. Ill start with all fish in the 20, but I want to transfer to the 80 over time. I assumed I would copper in the 20 and let the 80 go natural using DT water every time I make a WC.
SO----should I add anything at start-up or consider that DT water is "cycled"? Ive heard its a good idea to pull a sponge out of sump and put into the canister filter...could this be bad? I do have some of that black open-cell foam sponge that I use for cutting down on micro bubbles. It has some "stuff" in it for sure.
I can use the time to tend to the corals and let them grow in a bit and also I can vacuum the sand and do regular maintenance during this time.
Last thing, the big question: I see here that going 'fallow' for 72 days will make a healthy tank. what else should I do? This is quite the adventure and I really dig the corals and inverts. BUT, I want fish, too. I do have ro/di........in case that was a question too. High end water, nice sump with protein skimmer, great lights, good salt quality.....I really didn't go cheap anywhere but money doesn't trump expertise for sure.
thanks experts!!
joe
"Its a poor craftsman who blames his tools".
I am a total rookie, but my reef has been running for 8 weeks or so. I have a nice selection of corals and almost all of the 20+ 'pieces' that I have seem to be doing fine. They're awesome. I have Ecotech Radion Gen3's and also plenty of waterflow. 200 gallon DT and 75 gallon sump. My water testing shows no trites, trates and 0 ammonia. I think I jumped the gun on adding fish though, because 3 nice tangs didn't make it more than 2 weeks. Alkalinity is good, phosphates acceptable, salinity at 1.025. I found it strange to lose 3 fish overnight when there was very limited amounts of white spots, but some visible spots for sure. It also just happens that I had put in a rose anemone the day before, which possibly could have stung the fish but I have no clue. LFS didn't mention anything on that anemone.
Ok, I admit it, in spite of all I read, I didn't QT well enough and I assume that's why I'm in trouble now. At the LFS, the fish looked great. I only blame myself for my impatience, which is rare. To blame to myself that is. Here's my plan and please comment and correct for what you see is wrong:
I set up 2 QT's: 1 80 gallon tank which will go to about 2/3 fill. Also have a 20 gallon. I'm going to do several water changes daily on the DT and use the "discarded DT water" as QT water. Ill let them run for a few days, the 20 gallon will be filled sooner than the 80; 20 gallon tomorrow. Then I will pull all fish out of the DT, which isn't many, but are these: a valued purple tang, 4 small chromis and a cardinal. In QT's ill use a magnum 350 filter on the 80 and a HOT (Hang on Tank) magnum on the 20. Ill start with all fish in the 20, but I want to transfer to the 80 over time. I assumed I would copper in the 20 and let the 80 go natural using DT water every time I make a WC.
SO----should I add anything at start-up or consider that DT water is "cycled"? Ive heard its a good idea to pull a sponge out of sump and put into the canister filter...could this be bad? I do have some of that black open-cell foam sponge that I use for cutting down on micro bubbles. It has some "stuff" in it for sure.
I can use the time to tend to the corals and let them grow in a bit and also I can vacuum the sand and do regular maintenance during this time.
Last thing, the big question: I see here that going 'fallow' for 72 days will make a healthy tank. what else should I do? This is quite the adventure and I really dig the corals and inverts. BUT, I want fish, too. I do have ro/di........in case that was a question too. High end water, nice sump with protein skimmer, great lights, good salt quality.....I really didn't go cheap anywhere but money doesn't trump expertise for sure.
thanks experts!!
joe
"Its a poor craftsman who blames his tools".
Deinonych
New member
I'd recommend creating a separate post for your problem; you're likely to get better responses.
VJV
New member
I know this may be kind of old but I have had (still have) the same doubts about the 10 weeks fallow vs 4 weeks copper. The above explanation makes sense if you introduce your fish to a QT that already has Copper in the water. However, this is not what we do nor it is recommended as it could shock the fish. In fact, most of us add the fish to the QT and for a couple of days (I usually do a week) just observe the fish and try to get it to eat before doing the copper treatment. This means that during this time without copper some Trophonts may have released and encysted, and would not be affected by the copper until it excysts, which if you are really unlucky could take up to 72 days.
So I guess that if you want to be 99% sure that the copper treatment is effective! you would need to also treat for 72 days.
Anyone has a view? Snorvich?
Deinonych
New member
+1
Ever since I switched to tank transfer a year ago, ich has become a non-issue for me.
VJV
New member
Thanks! I am glad I finally got to the bottom of this. I don't understand why is it that 99% of the times people in the hobby (and even the instructions on some products such as Cupramine) tell you to do it 3 or 4 weeks. I never thought it made any sense given the life cycle of the parasite so I am glad it finally makes sense. I guess I will need to look at TTM now, since 72 days of copper is probably too aggressive on the fish...
Spar
New member
the 3-4 weeks comes from the fact that most cysts hatch in 5-8 days. the most applicable research available on ich research shows that some lasted up to 72 days, but they don't tell us what the water parameters (temp/salinity most relevant) were in those instances. I think it is just widely believed (...provided no actual research to back it...) that in normal reef parameters (temp 75-82, salinity 1.023-1.027) that cysts will hatch in a timely fashion (near the 5-8 days), meaning that they are willing to take the risk that 21-28 days is enough.
once I win the lottery, I plan to conduct a research program that considers more parameters
Anyone know the numbers for the Power Ball coming up?!
VJV
New member
the 3-4 weeks comes from the fact that most cysts hatch in 5-8 days. the most applicable research available on ich research shows that some lasted up to 72 days, but they don't tell us what the water parameters (temp/salinity most relevant) were in those instances. I think it is just widely believed (...provided no actual research to back it...) that in normal reef parameters (temp 75-82, salinity 1.023-1.027) that cysts will hatch in a timely fashion (near the 5-8 days), meaning that they are willing to take the risk that 21-28 days is enough.
once I win the lottery, I plan to conduct a research program that considers more parameters
Ok.... Makes sense, BUT, in that case, under normal reef parameters, a fallow period of 3-4 weeks should also be enough.
And we are back to the drawing board... [emoji1]
Spar
New member
if you follow that belief and willing to take the risk, then ya, the 3-4 week fallow is enough. i'm just not willing to take that risk.
one important thing to consider is that we all go by the "72 day" point, but that is merely the maximum found within the research conducted. there are billions on billions of parasites around the world, whereas the research only looked at a tiny fraction. what is the likelihood that some cyst at some point in time has lasted longer than 72 days... I'd have to figure a high probability. why a lot of people are hesitant to say 100% effectiveness, 99.9% maybe is better to leave room for the extreme unlucky.
seahorsedreams
New member
A high probablity indeed. I have a study, where it was longer than 72. I'll post it up, when I locate it. The article is with me on my iPad, but the spreadsheet which tells me which it is, is at home.
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