Feeding a nano, pH and snail poop

S

slam308

New member
Our tank is 5 weeks old. We've had a small cleaning crew (2 turbos, 2 hermits) for two weeks now. Nitrates and nitrites are both zero. Still some diatoms, mostly in the sand. Vaccuumed the sand (not live) and did another 4 gal change tonight using RO water from the LFS. Previously we'd used tap water.

IF we get a pair of clowns this weekend...IF...(should I?)...how should I feed them? I have the frozen cubes of Formula 1 and frozen cubes of brine shrimp plus.
I'm thinking to take a single cube to a cheese grater and shave off a tiny bit, mix it with tank water and dump it in. Sound good so far? Can I refreeze the rest of the cube assuming it won't thaw much in the minute or two it's out of the freezer.

Next issue. We leave the house by 7:30 am. The moon lights are still on. DH is home by 5, I'm home by 5:30, day lights off at 8 pm, actinics off at 10 pm. When should I feed them?
Actinics are on a 12 hr cycle, day lights are on 8 hrs.

Yet another issue to factor into things, my pH is 7.8. I'm hoping 4-5 weekly water changes with RO water from the store will help with that. I'm using Coralife salt. My SG is a steady 1.024.

Lastly, is there anything that'll eat the snail poop? There was quite a bit of it and I couldn't seem to siphon it up. I got a bunch, but some of it seems too heavy to siphon and it falls back out of the tube.

That should cover it for now.
Thanks for any advice or suggestions.
 
Re: Feeding a nano, pH and snail poop

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9057112#post9057112 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slam308
IF we get a pair of clowns this weekend...IF...(should I?)...how should I feed them? I have the frozen cubes of Formula 1 and frozen cubes of brine shrimp plus.
I'm thinking to take a single cube to a cheese grater and shave off a tiny bit, mix it with tank water and dump it in. Sound good so far? Can I refreeze the rest of the cube assuming it won't thaw much in the minute or two it's out of the freezer.
Click to expand...
I'm using small knife's end (could be ice pick) for dividing cube on 4-6 parts, it's better not to defreeze and freeze again. No need to grate: you can put it in strainer and discard the thawed water (may contribute to a possible phosphates in the future). What was left - give to clowns, by pipette or tweezers.
Next issue. We leave the house by 7:30 am. The moon lights are still on. DH is home by 5, I'm home by 5:30, day lights off at 8 pm, actinics off at 10 pm. When should I feed them?
Click to expand...
:p Two options:
- move photoschedule to the time before leaving (or feed after return from the work - can't help, I'm lucky to be able to feed twice a day, but some people are feeding once a day or once in two days);
- use autofeeder (could be unnecessary, KIS).
Yet another issue to factor into things, my pH is 7.8. I'm hoping 4-5 weekly water changes with RO water from the store will help with that. I'm using Coralife salt. My SG is a steady 1.024.
Click to expand...
Same with my tanks, IO salt, tap water. If still no changes in the future, you can test your magnesium levels, and add supplement, if they are too low. It helped me.
Lastly, is there anything that'll eat the snail poop? There was quite a bit of it and I couldn't seem to siphon it up. I got a bunch, but some of it seems too heavy to siphon and it falls back out of the tube.
Click to expand...
I'm siphoning it, but you may need increase height difference or try the next, bigger diameter of tubing - siphon may work better.
 
Thanks for the reply Dendro. If I change the light schedule too much, I'll never see the fish, so I'll feed after work.
How many fish/how big a tank would you have to have to use a whole cube????

Does anyone know if the changeover to RO water should help with my diatom problem? As I said earlier, I vaccuumed last night, but when I got home tonight, it was just as bad, if not worse. I noticed it's mostly on the right side of the tank, away from the stronger of the two powerhead outlets.
I have the Y'd loc-line mod with a maxijet 900 on the Y and a 1200 on the original outlet. Does this have anything to do with it?

I'm gonna wait another two weeks, do a couple RO water changes and hope for the best.
 
Cattleman,
I tried the chemistry forum...I think my brain seized. WAY too technical for me.
I'm gonna change out my water for RO water over the next week or so and HOPE that makes a difference. I won't introduce anything new until I get the problem fixed, I'm just hoping it won't be a problem after the changeover.
A friend at work has been helping me along with this stuff since the beginning. He's had about 20 yrs. of experience with a number of tanks. He does have a bit of a lackadaisical attitude about things, so that makes me want to double check stuff on these forums. He said to get some buffer and try that first.
I've been keeping him up to date with my numbers since I set the tank up.
I'm certainly not saying I'm discounting what I'm hearing on here, I just need to see it in plain English.

As far as the multiple clowns, I am looking at getting two of the same kind, O's or maybe Perc's. I was advised (again by the work friend) to get the smallest I can get. He said that applies to any fish I get. Is a 24 big enough for O's or Perc's to have their space until they sort things out?
 
slam308,
Sorry about the post not being clear in the thread I referred to, but the fight for the change of sex to female is even more inevitable with two clowns of the same specie.

HTH (happy to help)
 
So could I get away with a skunk and a O or Perc?? Lol, I love the skunk, DH and kids want a nemo looking fish.
Would they fight less, but still hang around together?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9076527#post9076527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slam308
So could I get away with a skunk and a O or Perc?? Lol, I love the skunk, DH and kids want a nemo looking fish.
Would they fight less, but still hang around together?
Click to expand...

I know this kind of thing has been done successfully, but much less successful than not. IMO

I would never do this because it causes stress and could easily injure a fish. It is better have a pair of clowns that are bought as a mated pair.

inlandaquatics.com sells mated pairs and liveaquaria.com is starting to sell mated pairs on its 'Diver's Den' section. :)
 
I feed the 2 whole frozen cubes to 90g, the people with a lot of corals, filling all the tank (they are eating what was left, even small particles)- 1 to 30g, it was answer to my question about chili coral.

Water chemistry not as bad as it seems, and Randy Holmes-Farley can answer comprehensively for a non-chemist level too, if asked - most kind.

Basically, what I did with my 7.8 pH with IO salt in tap water:
- checked alkalinity (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals kH test kit, then Salifert - same data), within normal range. But - in can change in 4 days, so test at beginning more frequently. Alkalinity helps to keep pH more or less stable, without swinging too much.
- added buffer, Seachem Reef Buffer 7.8. Bottle says, that if it not helps, check magnesium and calcium levels, should be levels and ratio ... (I can check numbers, if you wish).
- I did (Seachem Reef series tests, big white boxes). Both were low - even in newly prepared salt water.
- Started adding Seachem Magnesium additive, slightly raised calcium too - in 3 weeks coraline algae started to grow.
Asked at Holmes-Farley forums, he told what he is adding in IO salt water - I'm doing the same now. Dosing alkalinity and calcium supplements as well - when levels drop. So far, so good.

You see, not much can be done - only some water parameters can be tested (and corrected), and your RO water is a very good move to start with.

Diatoms - yellow-brown film, right? What worked for me in heavily fed tank - phosphate remover (it removes silicates too - food for diatoms). Then I used Seachem PhosGuard, but now I like Kent Phosphate Sponge better - it works fast, but should be removed after 8 hrs.
 
2 quick notes--dendros post looks good. Following his advice for testing-yes, use the buffer. No one's really said it yet, but that's pretty well standard operating procedure in the hobby, I believe, if used cautiously. You'll like need some buffer for Ph AND alk buffer. Second---if not already mentioned----test your raw RO water before you mix your salt in it for a baseline--so you'll know what the basic parameters are.

regarding the diatom--I didn't read all posts carefully, but...if it isn't taking over your tank and isn't overgrowing your corals, yes, do what is noted above, but I would suggest patience---I personally would NOT be adding chemicals to the tank, so I'd go in the direction of a sponge as noted.
 
Your tank is just going thru the early stages. Mine went the same thing at 5 weeks, the diatoms will clear up. As far as the r/o water is concerned, r/o water is aggressive and acidic. Good r/o water will be around 6.5 to 7.0 ph, you should get a ph buffer and use it a couple times until you can get it to stablize, do a 4.4 gallon water change with Nutri-sea water, and begin to drip some Kalkwasser.... What is your calcium level? Once your calcium level comes up your Alk will balance out. BTW, IMO you should go with a larger CC and i would get a goby of some kind to keep the sand clean.
 
Wow....
Okay, seems my first problem is not having enough testing stuff. I had about a month to research, receive and wrap everything for the kids for Christmas. And I was doing it on a budget.
The only test kit I have is a 5 in 1 test strip that measures nitrates, nitrites, something for freshwater only, Alk and pH.
Trates and trites I understand and they have been zero since my three week water change. Alk is 300 ppm, pH is 7.8. These numbers have not changed since the very beginning.
So, please consider my wallet, but, what test kits should I really have?
There's nothing in the tank except sand, saltwater, LR, 2 snails and 2 hermit crabs. I've never fed anything, and I'm not even close to corals. I'm definitely waiting a MINIMUM of two more weeks before I add any fish. Although I've been advised on the Invertabrates Forum to add a couple Cerith and Narcissus snails. (I'm sure I butchered the spelling on those.)
It helps to hear that this is normal. I didn't expect the diatom stage to last so long.
Kalkwasser scares me, as do the buffers and additives. I think I need to get the good test kits first, so I don't treat something that doesn't exist, or factors out to something more basic.
Dang....I thought I had things handled after the trites hit zero and the diatom bloom happened.
I assume I'm better off fixing this algea problem before adding fish into the mix. Correct??
Here's the latest pics,
Full tank
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r258/slam308/Picture061.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
And sand bed,
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r258/slam308/Picture059.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
 
yeah that's the same thing i went thru.... it's diatoms. I picked up the API Reef test kit for $30: nitrate, phos., calcium, and alk. There's no way your test for alk is reading 300. your alk needs to be 8-12. I'm telling you for $14 (depending the store) you can get the SeaWater.... it will help get everything leveled out plus it will give you extra bene. bacteria that you need. My Kalkwasser set up is very simple, just an spare SeaWater jug that i had lying around with a 1/4 hose with a ball valve. Get a siphon going and back down on the ball valve till you get just a steady drip. I was a little standoffish about the Kalk also until i saw the benefits on my corals. My red zoas have new polyps on them everyday.
 
Jamynsdad,
I'm probably wrong in my interpretation of the Alk reading.
What exactly is SeaWater? An additive, a salt mix? Can I search F&S with SeaWater and find what you're talking about?
Do you think I should mess with the Kalk before I make to change over to RO water, or wait for the better water and check my parameters then?
 
Used these strips - they also were my first tests ( Jungle Lab Quick Dip test strips) - same results, unchangeable over time. Very different from other test kits (as some Nutrafin tests differ from anothers too).

I ended with Aquarium Pharmaceuticals tests - the cheapest of the good. I checked results for alkalinity by Salifert tests (one of the best, costs twice more) - results are the same or almost the same, depending on the particular bottle. The only kind of AP tests, that I don't like - is Calcium test, had to use expensive Seachem Reef Status kits (BTW, price varies widely for different stores, now I'm ordering online, but not during freezing weather).

Conversion ppm to dKH is here:
calculator , or formula here .
It's highly unlikely, that you have 300 ppm or 16 dKH alkalinity in reality. Try AP test kit for KH - it should be around $6.

The tests, what you may need (sorry, if I'm using this word in improper content: I mean need, not NEED, and I'm frequently corrected):
- Ammonia (NH4) - for cycling and emergencies,
- Nitrites (NO2) - for the same, product of ammonia transfromation in the tank,
- Nitrates (NO3) - on a regular basis (weekly or biweekly), they are final product of this transformation and need to be removed, by water changes or by macroalgae or xenia,
- Phosphates (PO4) - rarely used, unles you have algae problem or LPS grow slowly.

This you will use the most:
- Alkalinity (KH) - keeps pH stable, like fuel of food for processing ammonia to nitrates, additives may be necessary 1-2 times a week. Have no fear - the sodium bicarbonium (baking soda?) from grocery store can be used for this purpose, only don't know dose. Seltzer too.
- pH - if pH is high, above 8.4, the another alkalinity additive should be used - that what is not raises pH immediately (Reef Bulder, in my case). If pH should or may be raised (pH 7.8 - 8.2 - then soda (not washing) or Reef Buffer should be used.
- Calcium - expensive tests, it should be kept at optimal levels, indicator - no coraline growth. Not so critical for a fish.

Many people are living without that, but with my chronically low pH, I had to try it:
- Magnesium, had to raise it to 1250-1375 ppm (ppm=mg/L).

I woldn't use Kalkwasser (Ca(OH)2) without testing water parameters before and after, you can try that later, when you will be more confident in testing and additives.

You can try to siphon diatoms out, but, as was said, they could be a part of tank development, and PhosGuard helped me (Kent Phosphate Sponge should do the same, but faster).

Can't say anything about cleanup crew - they didn't working for me efficiently.

BTW, if you are using filter floss for filtration, you can change it very frequently at this stage - helps too.
 
Jamynsdad,
What's a CC?...
Cleaner crew

Nutri-SeaWater is premade salt water that you should be able to pick up from your local fish store. Do the water change then start using the kalkwasser. Mix the kalk with r/o water and just use that as your top off.

I do agree with Dendro about the testing, that should be the first thing on your list. The Seawater will really help to stabilize you parameters. But more importantly, you just have to give the tank TIME. It will work itself out on its own
 
Last edited:
Hi Guys,
Had a busy weekend and unexpected company, so I didn't get a chance to post.
I spent two hours staring at the tank last night and saw two new worms! Then, I went back up at lights out (moonlights only) and saw another three new worms! I guess I must not be too far off.
The boys did another 4 gal RO water change this morning and my Alk is a true 180 on the multi test strip. I'll get to the LFS tomorrow to get the other, better tests, and see if they have the Nutri-SeaWater.
I'm going to continue with the RO changes and read up more about the kalkwasser also.
I got this stuff from the small LFS around the corner, it's called Marine S.A.T and it's supposed to be some kind of liquid concentrate of bacteria. Anyone ever heard of it? Is it any good? I know, I'm an easy sell, especially when the woman is basically saying, "You need this" as she rings it up on the register.

Also, the coralline that was on the LR is getting a bunch of color back. Most of it is lime green! A couple purple and pink spots.
When coralline first starts to grow on new spots, does it look kinda mossy? I'm starting to get that a lot and it seems to be the same basic colors as the rest of the coralline. Mossy or grainy is the best way to describe it as opposed to the established coralline that looks like a layer of smooth hardened frosting. (Lame description, but hopefully you know what I mean.)
 
Bacterial concentrate: you will need much more alkalinity and/or other tests (AP is cheap, otherwise I wouldn't use it), than bacterias at your stage of tank development. They are useful, but not necessary, mostly used for a fast tank cycling, should cost $5-7 bottle.
I used them all the time, mostly Seachem Stability and, later, Big Al's Bio-Support, they contain different kinds of bacteria, serving the same purpose. Can be added to the tank, no harm, but they will not change the look of the tank.
Also, for 24g may be time to add more smallest hermits and nassarius snails (sand-sifter, if I remember right). Can't say, will hermit kill small snails or not (mine killed astreas, but these hermits are big), may be queen concho for sand sifting. Better to check forums for clean-up crew and sand.

This is not approved by most of the reefers, but when you can, you may add some algae (not caulerpa) or white xenia to the tank, it helps clean water.
I had heard, that in some places marine aquarium clubs may help beginners with frags, common species even for free. Didn't tried, can't say, and here membership costs CND$25 for year.
Again, didn't tried, but may be it's possible to ask at classifieds forum, if somebody in your area can spare some for free. One year late you too will have excess of corals or fish and will be able to return the favor to some newbie.
Fuzzy stuff on LR: it comes to life, could be coraline (mine was green and crispy at beginning), or pest algae, or foraminiferans, but they there are mostly red or white.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Jyetman
What to feed a no fish reef
Replies
1
Views
500
OrionN
OrionN
BuckeyeFish
Nitrate control: 24g nano
Replies
6
Views
817
BuckeyeFish
BuckeyeFish
D
Is daily feeding too much for SunCoral?
Replies
4
Views
647
Dustin07
D
Broken reefer
Alk and cal
Replies
10
Views
1K
Broken reefer
Broken reefer
BuckeyeFish
AIO 24g refugium?
Replies
1
Views
453
griss
griss
Back
Top