Feel free to help out or rip a new one

[mmeadows]

So i scuba dive off the oregon coast and worked at petsmart for a yearish ( So i like fish and stuff)

one day i took a 30 gal marineland tank out of the garbage can (petsmart waste alot of stuff, but i dont want to hear anyones petsmart negativity, i left after all)

after filling up my tank, and not listening to my co workers, I put some live plants tetras mollys and blue rams in with in 24 hours. after 2 weeks of survival i decided i was ready for a sw tank

i bought a 75 gallon seaclear 2 ( sump built in the back) filled it up with filter water and top brand sands and salts



so 5 months go by with very little live rock and some macro algae.

then i buy dwarf seahorses and some softies ...... 4 months later ....they had eventually all found away to go over my over flow guards, they did reproduce like crazy though. ...

so that was around September that i bought those.

then February came and i bought kudas and a small male mandarin

everything is still alive but i feel like i could benefit from some advice as the tank is around 8 months established

problems:

live food; i can't make an out of control pod populations seem to happen ( pods from reefs2go seahorses from foxysaltwater) i dont want to really ever feed frozen as im lazy and it will hurt water quality. yes i use iodine i also tried to seed with pod you can buy from ebay. and its alot

my mandarin;
is still alive but he is so small and skinny, but i'm assuming he eats if he is still around. sometimes he eats frozen mysis but not really and sometimes he easts live brine but he is so small i dont know how he does it.

now his fins are tethered and his left fin is gone completely!!! oh the humanity

today i bought him a girl friend, she is so much bigger than him so now i really feel like he is starving, it took them a while to meet but once they did, they both puffed up, and she kicked his arse big time. i had to make her let go multiple times. they are now on opposite sides. ( im positive its not two males )

my seahorses;
two females, sometimes the big one picks on the little one ( well only once)
the large one seems too skinny but eats regularly and the small one seems fat and healthy. not sure about their age. oh and i'm getting 5 more kudas in 2 days,

my softies;
purple gorognia died, pulsing Xenia died, ricordias florida 1 is alive 2 mia. ricordia yuma thriving, yellow whip gorgonia alive , kenya tree could be better,

ammonia nitrite 0

nitrate 20-40 ( test strips and depending on if a snail is being eaten before i pulled it.)

i dont do / have never done water changes on my sw . i have a lame seaclone 100.

Others
2 sea horses ( soon to be 7)
4 peppermint shrimp
3 types of snails that came in a clean up crew but who knows who is alive
sometimes by crabs kill my snails or my snails die naturally im not sure.
2 mandarins
2 serpent star fish
1 fire fish
5 red hermits maybe more
2 sea cucumbers ugly ones

 

[whosurcaddie]

Well by adding a second mandarin you just added another competitor to an already struggling fish. The healthy one you just added will out compete the mandarin that is barley hanging on.

If you add live pods directly to your display your mandarins will eat them nonstop and they will never have a chance to reproduce. They will literally sit there and eat every last one.

What you need is an attached refugium that the pods can survive and reproduce in that's how you achieve a sustainable live food source for your fish.

I dont know anything about seahorses I wont even go there.

I would recommend getting some better test kits. Strips are bottom of the barrel when it comes to testing water. At the very least look at API.

Also you need to look into controlling calcium alkalinity and magnesium in your tank if you want to have healthy corals.

I highly advise that you start atleast 10% water changes every two weeks. I change 10% every week.

I would also ditch the seaclone and get a better skimmer. Good luck.

 

[bundybear1981]

Please dont take this the wrong way but mixing sea horses and fish / corals is a no no. Sea horses require cool water then fish / coral, can get stung by corals, and are more susceptible to diseases at warmer temperature. They also need less flow the corals / fish. You need to keep sea horses in a species tank, you really need to choose what you want. There is a section dedicated to keeping them.

Your Mandarin is slowly starving to death. Your tank is not really mature enough for one and you would really need a refuge to support pod breeding. Adding an extra one will only end badly, you tank isnt big enough for 2. The one you have is very unhealthy and possible carrying a disease.

For the corals - what type of lighting do you have and what are your other parameters? Alk, calcium and magnesium? Xenia is hard to kill - it grows like a weed. Something has to be out in your water quality for it to die. Gorognia is experienced keeper and hard to care for.

 

[Nina51]

sorry to be blunt but if you want to keep a saltwater tank and be successful at it, you need to go back to the basics.

before you buy more livestock, research the needs of what you already have and act accordingly. if your first mandarin has any chance of survival, you need to return the second one. and there is a whole forum here dedicated to seahorses. read and ask questions because at this point, it sounds like you are jumping in too soon with too much.

 

[MinnFish]

Do you have a recent picture of the tank?

 

[snorvich]

Some good advice above. Two mandarins will not work. Even if you are lucky enough to get two of the opposite sex, their copepod demands will exceed what you can possible supply.

 

[rlm2005]

Do you have a recent picture of the tank?

That's what I was wondering. Like was mentioned above, I would visit the seahorse forum for help with that. That particular gorgonian is very difficult to keep. Your mandarin may already be too far gone to save but adding another was a very bad move you need to take that one back asap. Best of luck. The good thing is you found reef central. Read the stickys at the top of this page. Read through the fish purchases thread, it may give you some ideas on some sensible stocking for your tank. Unless you want a seahorse tank and in that case read and ask questions on the seahorse forum.

 

[frogdog]

mmeadows, I'm so glad you've found this forum. Welcome.

I'm going to address only the mandarin problem. If possible, get the new out of the tank and back to the fish store as several before me have noted. The skinny one is starving to death. It may be too late, but if you want to try to save him, can you buy copepods at your fish store? Can you get some copepods down to him, exactly where he hangs out? Do you have a little tank you could isolate him in? the water needs to be the exact parameters as your main tank. you'd have to get a bunch of pods in there ASAP. Putting a little of your live rock rubble might help. Stack it up in a plastic cup with some holes cut at the bottom on the sides. Put a few little pieces of PVC pipe in there for him to shelter himself in.

Or better yet, do you know someone with a mature tank who could take him for a while until you get set up? If someone could put him in their refugium by himself, he might have a chance, at least temporarily. If you don't know anyone, is there a local aquarium club you could contact? If you could raise anyone, they might be able to find someone to help you.

I mean this in the kindest way.

 

[SwampyBill]

First off, welcome to Reef Central. There's a wealth of knowledge in these threads & people will steer you in right direction. I come & trust feedback here more than ALOT of LFS give me. You just need to research, research, research & ask questions BEFORE making impulsive buys. Since you've never done a water change, you really should start w/ about a 30% change for starters; then about 10% weekly or 20% bi-weekly after that. Others have addressed the fish & seahorse issues so I'll leave that alone. Good luck!

 

[mmeadows]

Wow guys thanks for the amble replys, ill do my best to address responses accordingly.

general questions for anyone. can someone show me a link to some economical testing equipment

whats eating my mandarin though>

can someone post me the seahorse link, im still figuring out rc

walk me threw how you do a sw water change. i have only done fw changes and i didn't need to be to concerned with temps, salinity, ph etc



whosurcaddie; that sucks i added a problem with another mandarin. i was hoping it would give him companionship. one is male one is female. i do have a fuge that i have put pods into but only recently have i replaced my bio balls with calepura

im put in 20 worth of tigger pods in the display yesterday so the mandarin would have something. im going to get the 2000 pod combo ( copiopds and archeopods spelling) right now to try and seed the fuge once more. :thumbdown

ill attach a pic of my skimmer to show you why my options are limited.

bundybear1981; i can add a water chiller if needed i already have one. right now im at 76 degrees and oregon hasn't gotten hotter than that yet. they are kudas

my tank is 8+ months established how old does a tank need to be before adding a mandrin? i have seen fin rot in fresh water but i feel like something is eating my mandarins fin, like s bristle worm or pepermint shrimp or something

im not trying to have a reef tank just some seahorse friendly corals that look nice gorgonias ricordias zoonathids kenya tree. not tyring anything stoney

:headwalls: cant return the mandarin, i dont have a qt tank..... buying pods now.

here are pics i just took to show the tanks design as well as conditions

 

[intyme]

Glad to see you are asking for help and no one is ripping you a new one. The people on here are very helpful!! Good luck

 

[rlm2005]

Start reading the pinned thread called Setting Up How To's. The seahorse and pipefish forum is here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=35 When you are on the main page of the forums scroll down and there are many forums.

 

[rosek007]

when i started my first sw tank I didn't know squat, now almost 2 years in I still don't know squat I'm just a little dangerous, kudos for making the step in the right direction by coming on here and asking for advice and help. Btw mine was a 10 gallon with water and sand from the beach and stuff my kids picked up from the shallow end...lol

 

[frogdog]

hi again mmeadows,

I'm going to address a couple of things, and i'm sure others will chime in before long.

Test kits: you have plenty of time to shop around for the best price/quality ratio in the future. But you need some test kits right now. So get a major brand--Salifert, Tropic Marin, Seachem, Instant Ocean. Right now you need something to test salinity/specific gravity. There are refractometers and hydrometers. Hydrometers will be cheaper. Get a major brand. 2) you need something to test for pH and 3) something to test for nitrates. There are other tests you need, but not instantly. Once you get some test kits, test your main tank water, and write down whatever your results are.

Here's an article on test kits: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/6/chemistry

Changing water: First, have you been topping off your water to compensate for the water that is evaporating? Have you been using plain water, not salt water? Only the plain water is evaporating, none of the salt is.

You need water. RO or RODI (reverse osmosis) or distilled water. You can maybe get that at the fish store. If not, you can get distilled water at the grocery. You will need 20 gallons, but you could start with 10 today if you can't manage 20. You can always do another 10 tomorrow.

You need 2 or 3 perfectly clean buckets or plastic containers that have no trace of soap or chemicals in them (like have never had any in them before). And you need something to measure with. Do you have something to measure quarts? liters? gallons? Even a brand new plastic gas can would work.

Measure out 10 gallons of your new water or the equivalent in metric units. Put it in the bucket or container. If you have only bought 10 gallons, save 1 gallon and set aside. Add the right amount of your sea salt. You need a heater in it to bring your new water up to the right temperature. Aim for 78F. You need something to move the water around. Do you have a little extra water pump? Do you have several in your aquarium? If you're desperate, take one out of the aquarium and put it in the new saltwater bucket. Don't have that? Do you have an old bubble wand or air pump that you used for a freshwater aquarium? Use that. Use something to move the water around to mix it and heat it up. Get that water mixing because you have to wait a while before you can use it. You are supposed to wait at least 24 hours. See what the seawater package says.

While the new water is mixing, test the salinity/specific gravity of your aquarium. It should be about 1.025. If it's higher than 1.025, then if you have room in the aquarium, start adding very slowly some of the *plain* (new) water to your aquarium. (You will do a water change when the new saltwater is ready, but in the meantime, you can start to correct the salinity in the main tank.) If you have room to add water, add some very slowly. Like a quart every 30 minutes. I don't know how your system is plumbed, so make sure you are not overwhelming your pumps. You don't have to heat this plain water because it's a very small volume of your total water volume. Keep adding plain water until you A) test 1.025, or B) run out of water or C) run out of room in your tank to add. Here's an article about water parameters. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

If your current salinity in the main tank is fine, then do nothing until your water change. If you have no room to add water, do nothing until your water change. Once you're ready to change water, siphon some out into bucket #2. Watch carefully how much you're taking out because that's how much you want to put back in. Test your new water first! Check it's salinity and pH. pH should be around 8 and salinity around 1.025. Add it very slowly.

And in the meantime, if you can catch the war-torn mandarin, put him in the refugium, but make sure he can't get injured or sucked into any pipe intakes like water pumps. Cover them if necessary with a piece of perfectly clean, no-chemicals-or-soap-ever, sponge, so water can get through, but not him. No sponge? then wrap some clean cheesecloth (grocery) over/around the intakes. Dump some pods in there and he's got a chance.

This is a good start.

If I forgot something or made a mistake, someone please correct me.

 

[rosek007]

And remember test kits expire, my first one was expired long before I figured It out, don't feel intimidated by all you have to do just take It one step at a time.

 

[frogdog]

my softies;
ricordias florida 1 is alive 2 mia. ricordia yuma thriving, yellow whip gorgonia alive , kenya tree could be better,

2 sea horses ( soon to be 7)
4 peppermint shrimp
3 types of snails that came in a clean up crew but who knows who is alive
sometimes by crabs kill my snails or my snails die naturally im not sure.
2 mandarins
2 serpent star fish
1 fire fish
5 red hermits maybe more
2 sea cucumbers ugly ones

Here are a few more comments about your tank inhabitants:

You have to choose if you want to make it a seahorse tank, or not a seahorse tank because seahorses have very special needs. Like someone said before me, if you want to keep the seahorses, read a ton of threads here under seahorses, and read seahorse.org. If you want to keep the seahorses, you'll have to lose the starfish, the hermits, the cucumbers, and probably the shrimp. You can probably keep the firefish. Your surviving corals are probably okay, but many corals will kill seahorses, so you might want to concentrate on zoanthids/polyps. But be careful because some zoanthids secrete a very toxic stuff that can kill you. Read about "palythoa". Mandarins need a new home no matter what. This tank is too small.

If you want to keep the other stuff and have a variety of corals, then find a new home for the seahorses, because they won't last long.

Hermits are controversial and can do a lot of damage to your tank inhabitants. I'd lose them anyway.

While you get your water quality under control, you can think about what you want to concentrate on in your tank.

I hope this helps,

 

[snorvich]

Some good advice and excellent posts above!

 

[mmeadows]

Frog dog I appreciate your help but need to understand it more before I fallow it. I've read allot of places you can have pipe fish and mandarin s with Seahorses as they are non aggressive eaters.

Most online sources state a 30 gallon will work for a mandarin why is 75 to small for these little guys?

How cOuld a cucumber hurt a seahorse? My serpent Stars are mellow detritus eaTers but I could see the potential there I guess.

I agree with no mOre corals, and the ones I have I got because they are seahorse safe.

So has it been dumb Luck they are still aLive

 

[frogdog]

mmeadows, you absolutely should read and research as much as possible before making decisions. You should make up your own mind. It's your tank. Only you can decide what you want to live in it.

The problem with the mandarins is that they eat mostly copepods, and most tanks <100G + a big refugium designed for copepods, can't produce enough copepods to feed them. They feed constantly and need a constant source of food. So sure, anything is possible. If you can figure out a way to stream a constant source of copepods right over to them.....The majority of these fish die of starvation in beginner tanks.

Cucumbers. A cucumber could work, but it's risky. There are different varieties of cucumbers. Some cucumbers if they get stressed or injured or die, will put out a bunch of toxins that can crash a tank, and the seahorses are pretty fragile.

P.S. your cucumbers and your firefish are also eating copepods, and competing with the mandarins, so that makes it even harder for the mandarins to get enough.

 

[mmeadows]

thanks frogdog for breaking it down for me.

I have decided to build a small QT tank today next to the DT. im going to fill it up with tank water a piece of live rock and caulapera all from the dt. Im then going to use furan 2

will furan 2 kill pods? my guess is no as its just a broad spec antibacterial..... i know its going to kill all the positive bacteria on the live rock but thats okay its a new piece of rock anyways.

i also bought 40 amphiods and Parvo, Acartia, Tisbe pods (1200 ish total) $100

some are going in the fuge some are going in the qt with small mandarin i want the qt tank to be a pod shop after the mandarin leaves