Filtration for large Quarantine/Hospital tank

[desjardinii]

After living with Ich for way too long I have finally decided to bite the bullet and try to eradicate it once and for all. I don't have the facility to set up a another tank large enough to treat all my fish at once so I've decided to convert a 160g +40g sump fowlr into a treatment tank using Cupramine. All the live rock, sand and any inverts will be removed and I'll use pvc fittings for hideouts. I'm going to need to replace the bio filtration the LR provided with something else. I need to get this up and going and cycled asap as this latest breakout is bad and many of the fish that seemed to be immune for years are suffering. I have a vey large weir in the corner that would hold approx 10-15gal. of bioballs and could be run as a trickle filter? Please give me your suggestions!

 

[Mishri]

I would recommend doing TTM, starting with the ones who are most delicate/susceptible.. and then moving them to the 160g following that.

Or I'd use Chlorquine Phosphate or chloroquine disophate, whatever you can get a prescription for, a vet can write you one. in the 160gallon. I'd probably still remove the live rock and sand, as CP will kill algae/bugs living in it.
(If that isn't an option new life spectrum ich shield is a form of it that is effective as well, and you can buy it off amazon or other places online)

I just don't recommend copper.. thought I had it gone and it was just knocking them down so they were only attaching in the gills.

-one nice thing about CP, in my experience the white spots all drop off within a day.

 

[Mishri]

oh, and to answer your filtration question... if it's not already attached to a system with a heavy bioload your fish are probably going to require massive water changes to keep ammonia down, i'd get an ammonia alert badge. You can't use amquel with cupramine, you could if you used CP instead.

 

[desjardinii]

Thanks for your help, TTM is not really an option, my plan is to remove the sand & LR gradually, I have a big skimmer (SRO 5000 ext) on the tank which will continue to run until I start medicating. Definitely will get an ammo badge, there's a few well seeded sponges in the sump and I've decided to add marine pure spheres. I'll think about using CP but it may be difficult to obtain where I live..

 

[piusma]

This might be one of those projects that sounds easier than done.

Questions:

1. Assuming your 160 is currently running and you must have fish and rocks in it. Are you adding sick fish from the other tank to this tank? That means you're really infecting all other fish that is perfectly healthy and then treat them with copper? If anything went wrong in the next 21 days, you might loose ALL of your fish instead of half of your fish.

2. How are you going to manage the ammonia level with that many fish in the 160? You can't treat with prime with copper which means you can only perform water change. With only a few sponge filter and dosing copper, I don't see your sump will be giving you any help with the ammonia.

Are you ready & have the capacity to perform 80+ gallon of water change every day or every other day? Remember, IF anything goes wrong, you'll need to be ready to deal with it. With infected fish with open wounds, if water quality gets compromised, then you might have secondary infections, then you'll have to worry about copper, ammonia and bacterial infection. That is on top of aggression that you'll have to address.

How many fish are you needing to treat from the other tank? There might be alternatives if you can provide more information.

 

[desjardinii]

Thanks for your input, here's the scenario-
The tank is running and already has the fish in it I want to treat, there's 8 ranging from 4" up to 9". Not all fish have symptoms but would be carrying Ich. There's approx. 120-150lb of LR encrusted with some soft corals and a small amount of sand & rubble which will be removed but not before I have an alternative, capable & cycled bio filter up and running. Unfortunately I can't facilitate another tank large enough for all the fish to do TTM so I need to treat them where they are. I've ordered more than enough marine pure according to the manufacturer to handle the filtration once cycled and the treatment will have to wait till then.

 

[piusma]

I would try CP instead of copper if you were going to treat the 160.

1. it's more gentle on the fish and your good bacteria

2. It can be mixed with prime in case of emergency

3. It's easier to control although you cannot measure it with a test kit (I just do a water change a re-dose with the amount of water that I replaced, helps keeping water in check)

HOWEVER, from experience. Fish immune system does get compromised and there were quite a few times I had to dose antibiotics (AND that's when you need to do a tone of water change every day)

 

[Dmorty217]

I have a marinpure block and I also purchased 50L of Sera Siporax that I use for filtration on my 125g and 40g QTs (a couple of handfuls). Both systems also have a simple Marineland HOB filter.

 

[desjardinii]

Thanks Dmorty, I've got 1gal. of the sphere's which apparently will do up to 500g. They're going into the down flow side of the baffle in the sump with a filter pad on top to keep them clean. How long should they take to become active? -keeping in mind they're going into an established tank. Can I fast-track the process somehow?

 

[piusma]

Keep in mind the marine pure will also absorb your copper making it even harder to maintain at the right level. I used to treat with copper way back and I only use a hang on back with foam. I'm almost feeling that you are better off using a couple FX5 filter with plastic bioballs over marine pure.

 

[desjardinii]

The marine pure is inert and provides a load more surface are than plastic bio balls (1300 X more -according to Cermedia) . Water freely flows through the spheres so in theory shouldn't trap or absorb much of the copper?

 

[piusma]

I use marine pure in my tank, it's like ceramic balls with tones of surfaces inside. Great product but I would assume it'll take up copper just like live rocks. It would be hard to believe that this won't take up copper, think about live rocks and sand, they are inert as well.

Maybe I'm wrong and obviously they are many times superior over bioballs BUT bioballs are not porous material and won't soak up copper. I'd choose a couple FX5s with plastic bioballs although it's less efficient comparing to marine pure but it's compact and won't soak up copper. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

[desjardinii]

I've used plastic bioballs in traditional wet/dry trickle filters where they're suspended out of the water with good results but submerged they're not very efficient? I sent an email to Cermedia regarding medication and will post what I can find out.

 

[desjardinii]

Ok, the biological filter is set up. I went with 90 MP spheres and a 18" x 7" x 10" approx. block of coarse sponge.
I need this seeded asap so I can remove the LR and proceed with medication.