Final Sump design

[Neoz]

OK so I dry fitted my sump design. I posted the picture below. Looking for some feedback. Good, bad, or otherwise. Its my first sump hookup. Now on to the crude picture i made in paint

OK first and foremost the scale isn't even close. I just whipped this up quick. There are four hoses total which are in blue. There are two valves which are in pink and are rounded. All the red plumbing is 3/4" ID. The other line is 1" ID.

The sump is an acrylic Ecosystem model 3616. I don't use the bioballs or the mud. This came with my tank. Here is a link to it.
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/products/filters/deluxe-filter-system.html

And now for my crude picture. Let me know what you think please. Would like to glue everything up and do a water test.

.

 

[Capt_Cully]

Looks good. Just make sure your return compartment (all the way left) has a large enough volume. A 180 will lose close to 2 gallons a day (give or take) in evaporation. Unless you run a reliable ATO from the git-go, you may run that dry in a short time. Could cost you a return pump. Again, looks very similar to mine, so naturally, I like it.

How big is the sump tank?
Is it under tank or in basement?

Depending on return pump size and where the sump is, you could have a LOT of bubbles and salt spray at the right if you don't cover it somehow. I might suggest also adding an additional baffle or set of baffles on the left to trap bubbles and reduce microbubbles in the display tank.

Not nit-picking, just trying to save you from the pitfalls I fell into.

Cully

 

[Neoz]

The sump tank is 36" L x 16'W x 18" H. Not sure what that equals in gallons. The sump is under the tank in the stand.

I have two return pumps one is Mag 9.5 the other is a Mag 18. I'm leaning towards the mag 9.5 but haven't really made up my mind.

So with the above information should i be concerned about bubbles? Because I don't know much about adding baffles. But I want it done right.

Also don't worry about nit picking I need the help as this is my first sump setup. Thanks..

 

[nwrogers]

It looks like it will work but why are you mixing the vinyl tubing with the PVC. You may be better off using all one or the other. Those PVC to vinyl connector things can reduce flow and I would be hesitant to use as many as you have shown above. It will still work don't get me wrong. It will just put more back pressure on your pump and on the drain they will be more likely to get clogged by animals and may cause your overflows to be noisy or force you to use a smaller return pump than you want to. Also if it was me I wouldn't combine the two drains right before sump. I would keep them separate so if one gets clogged you at least have one working drain. Other than that it looks good.

 

[Neoz]

Nate i did that because all this is going under my stand. With the tubing it allows me to be more flexable. Everything dosen't have to be in a perfect line and angle. I could try and eliminate the upper tubing and make everything PVC and unions?

As for the drains on the right, my sump only has one inlet bulkhead on the top of the sump. Its not all open on that end. Has one huge bulkhead only. The bulkhead is a 1 1/2" The whole PVC tubing for that piece is 1 1/2" PVC. Dosen't go down to 1" until were the hoses meet the barb connection. I didn't build that piece. It came with the tank that way.

Also animals will get in my drains? I sure don't want that. I have the tops of my overflows covered with eggcrate. Is that enough or do I need more?

 

[drbronx]

Ditto what Nate said; I would definitely suggest two returns into the sump. Even with eggcrate, something can always cause a clog. In this hobby, if something can go wrong, it will. I also agree with Capt. Cully; I would add at least one more baffle on the left side to minimize microbubbles from the sklimmer outflow since you will be sucking alot of water with that Mag pump.

 

[Neoz]

OK I'll make the changes and go from there. You all have way more experience then I do .

But when you say "add a baffle on the left side", so were does it go on the left side? Between the two existing ones in the center? Does it go all the way to the bottom of the tank like the one already there? Also do i make it the same size in height? Sorry for all the questions but not really sure about this.

I will redesign the return so that they both enter the sump separately. This makes sense to me now.

 

[nwrogers]

I am not sure you will need another baffle but it never hurts to add more IMO I usually use three and they need to alternate so if you were to put them in between the two on the left you would have to insert 2 more not just one. If you were to add one more you would have to add it before or after the two on the left. I like to keep my baffles 1 inch apart FWIW. Anyway if you need to have flexible tubing and you want to use PVC you can use the spa flex PVC. But if you want to save time just use all vinyl tubing. I used to use all PVC when I first got into the hobby but now I am too lazy and I just use all vinyl. There is nothing wrong with vinyl tubing IMO. As far as the two drains into the sump go you shouldn't need any bulkheads at all. You can just take the top off that section of the sump and run the tubing right into the sump without the bulk head. Good luck!

 

[Neoz]

Thanks for the explanation Nate. As for the flex, I did buy spa Flex. That stuff is nice. Maybe i will just run the flex all the way. The only thing is Lowes only carries the spa flex down to 1". The employee I spoke with said he dosen't even think they make it in 3/4" size. So I had to go with thick heavy duty braided tubing for that size.

I will add another baffle. It sure can't hurt to do it now before everything gets in there. I'll also remove the bulkhead and see about getting both drains in the sump.

This is why I posted before I glued eveerything up Off to work on it now...

 

[reefscape15]

The extra baffle before your return pump section was the only suggestion I would have had, but I agree with going with only one type of tubing. I work in the electrical field, and whenever we have to change from one type of pipe to another, there is a very rough, bumpy part inside of where the changeover occurs. I would assume if there was water flowing through, it would be disrupted greatly, resulting in reduced flow.

 

[Neoz]

I took some measurements on my sump. The distance between those two existing baffles is 3 1/2 inches. Now going by what Nate said he uses which is 1" between the baffles, doing the math I can just add 2 more baffles in between the existing baffles correct? Is four going to be too many? Also they would all be about 1" apart. So this would be good correct? I will alternate them up and down.

As for the Tubing. I will be using Spaflex all the way on the 1"ID Drains. Using 2 seperate drains. And a heavy duty braided tubing on all the returns. Which will make my job much easier.

One more side note. Now I don't want to use a lot of those barbs as you say. But two things, there has to be barbs connected at the bulkheads correct? I don't know of another way to connect the hoses or tubing to the bulkheads. I have slip bulkhead connection on the tank. Also I will need a valve somewere above my return pump correct to adjust pressure on the pump if need be? And I have to connect the returns to a T which means 2 more barbs? Am I wrong on my plumbing? Mind you I don't plumb much at all. So maybe someone could post a picture of how to join a spaflex tube to a plastic T or bulkhead...

 

[nwrogers]

Spa flex tubing works just like PVC so you use the same 90, 45, unions etc. as you would use on a regular piece of PVC. You also use the same PVC cleaner and PVC cement to glue it as you would use on regular PVC pipes. The only difference is that it is flexible. So in fact if you use only PVC and Spa flex you won't need any barbs at all. You can come out of the bulkhead with a small piece of PVC into the 90 degree elbow like you already planned. Then just in the spa flex and run it right to the sump. You may want to throw a union or 2 in there in case you ever want to clean it or move the tank but that's it. For the return from the sump to the tank you can use 1.5 inch PVC into a 1.5 inch PVC "T" just like you planned. Then use reducer bushing to size the top left and right parts of the 1.5 inch "T" down to 1 inch and run them with the 1" spa flex to either side of the tank where they get glued into the 90 degree elbows before going through the bottom of the tank. Again throw in a union or two and you got yourself some top notch plumbing with no barbs or vinyl tubing! Hope that helps

 

[nwrogers]

Oh and 4 baffles is not too much. Just a tip when trying to space the baffles I find it is easiest to use some PVC and that blue painting tape to hold them in place to get the spacing just right when putting the baffles in. Did you put the current baffles in? I am just wondering what your sump is made out of and what you plan to use to glue them in? Last tip if you want 1 inch spaces use 3/4 inch PVC as spacers. If those are too small you can use 1 inch PVC as spacers. Good luck!

 

[Neoz]

Nate now i finally got it! Jeez what a Noob. Thanks for hanging in there with a noob and his questions. After reading that I actually found a picture. I love the looks of this as opposed to the clamps and barb look. Now I can do all my plumbing tomorrow and finish off my sump with a water test. Thanks again to Nate and everyone with the suggestions. Thank god for this forum and all the helpful members!

The Sump is Acrylic. The baffles were already there. I will be adding the others tomorrow. But thanks for those great tips.

A picture is worth a thousand words...

 

[nwrogers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15272650#post15272650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neoz
Nate now i finally got it! Jeez what a Noob. Thanks for hanging in there with a noob and his questions. After reading that I actually found a picture. I love the looks of this as opposed to the clamps and barb look. Now I can do all my plumbing tomorrow and finish off my sump with a water test. Thanks again to Nate and everyone with the suggestions. Thank god for this forum and all the helpful members!

A picture is worth a thousand words...

No problem at all. Glad I could help

 

[frankandmaura]

Neoz,
Not sure of you finished your sump design or not, but I have a VERY crude design for my sump that you can take a look at...

My 125 is basically the same as your 180 tank with overflows and returns in the corners. I have 2 returns to my sump, as others have suggested...

Also, as you can see, I have my skimmer in the section of the sump that has the returns...this gives ample space for the bubbles to dissapear before they get to the return.

Let me know if you have any questions...

Frank

 

[Piazzon12]

Also, 90's are loud, you may want to consider 45's on the returns

 

[Neoz]

Frank I really liked the looks of your sump when I seen it. But unfortunately I'm using an existing sump that came with my tank. If I had my way I would of designed it differently. Because I wanted a fuge ideally.

Adam 45's on the returns were they meet the bulkheads? Now your talking the returns going to the sump correct?

Also everywere I looked this morning no one carries 3/4" spaflex! So my choices are to order it online or go 1" with everything and use a reducer at the bulkheads? Anyone see why that WOULDN'T work?

 

[Piazzon12]

Yeah, I mean 45's on the overflow lines

 

[Neoz]

Thanks adam. 45's installed.

I finally found everything for my plumbing! With the exception of Weld-On #4 which is what everyone says to use to glue in the acrylic baffles. Problem is finding the stuff. So unless I order it online i need another substitute. Any ideas? Bonding Acrylic to Acrylic. Something that has been proven.