Finally beginning... 280G project

[ekovalsky]

After almost getting started several times in the past few years, my wife and I are finally ready to proceed with a living reef tank in our game room. I unfortunately do not have the time (nor the skill!) to make this a total DIY project but I am going to have a lot of input on the system design. This will be going into an existing niche 77" wide x 96" tall x 28.5" deep. The computer desk and overhead cabinets will be ripped out:

Tank will measure 77"L x 28"D x 30"H for about 280G. Actually just under 77"L since it needs to fit into the existing space. A steel stand will support it. A "skin" will be added to match existing built-ins on the adjacent wall:

Space under the tank will be available for equipment and plumbing. There is also a sizeable niche (66"L x 28"D x 96"H) in the hallway beginning next to the tank currently housing face frame cabinets. These are visible around the corner from the tank area in the first picture and are expendable for conversion into an equipment closet. Since the hallway does open into the game room, noise control will still be important. Heat generated by the tank lights and other equipment can be vented into the attic, or potentially all the way to the roof via an existing exhaust fan in the nearby laundry room.

I haven't entirely decided on major equipment but this is what I'm leaning towards:

Tank: glass with starphire front panel and overflows in both rear corners. The only viewing of the display tank will be via the front panel, so I may coat the back and sides with black pond foam. All plumbing will have to be via the bottom. This would be a decent application for an acrylic tank athough I am shying away from that because of the propensity to scratch.

Skimmer: H&S 200-1260 or Euro Reef RC250 (new model shipping with Eheim 1262, no change in price). Could also be more ambitious with an H&S 250-1260x2 or RC500 (now with three Eheim 1262 instead of two SP4, also a cost increase) but extra expense is significant. I don't plan on overstocking fish so the single pump models will probably be sufficient.

Lighting: Three pendant fixtures with 14k and/or 20,000K double ended 250W bulbs, HQI or electronic ballasts.

Circulation: Sequence pumps (Reeflo and/or 1000 series). Most circulation to go through closed loop system using Ocean Motions 4-way switch, remainder on sump return. I'm thinking it may be better to double up with smaller pumps (like the DART for CL and Snapper for sump return) for redundancy, rather than opt for individual larger pumps (like Reeflo Barracuda or Sequence 1000 series) in singles.

Chiller: Ambient temp in the room is usually 75-76 degrees, and the room has no windows or skylights to let in the Arizona sun. I'll probably still opt for a 1/2 HP model, and it needs to be on the quiet side and reliable. Any suggestions ?

I'll likely add a calcium reactor and computer controller/monitor after the tank is established. UV sterilizer will be installed from the beginning.

Thanks to sidewinder770 for a lot of great ideas !

 

[jaze36]

Should be a nice addition when done. I look forward to seeing more.

 

[Nanook]

Holy cow! If that is your game room, then I want pics of the rest of that palace!!



BTW, I have a friend with the 1/3 HP JBJ chiller and it runs quiet.

 

[clekchau]

pictures of house from outside? lol

 

[mflamb]

sidewinder770 is a treasure chest of great ideas!!! I'm going to follow along this one.
Mike

 

[ekovalsky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8457184#post8457184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nanook
Holy cow! If that is your game room, then I want pics of the rest of that palace!!



BTW, I have a friend with the 1/3 HP JBJ chiller and it runs quiet.

Thanks for the compliments on the room! The rest of the house is definitely a lot nicer than the game room. I'm not going to post any house pictures here since it is beyond off topic, but if anyone really wants to see something you can email or PM me.

Once the tank is installed I'll probably enjoy the game room almost as much as my beloved two channel audio room.

Thanks for the chiller tip by the way. JBJ Arctica is definitely at the top of my list.

 

[woodwrangler]

Sounds like you have done your research, and Scott is certainly a wealth of information. Anxious to see this one get underway.

I'm sure you have seen this thread, but another local reefer (chetm2) has put together a nice build log with a ton of information; http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=783816

 

[ekovalsky]

Making slow progress. Still researching equipment and accumulating tank quotes, and trying to optimize everything's location while minimizing required changes to existing structure.

I'm hoping to incorporate an external overflow to maximize real estate in the tank, and also allow for easy maintenance. Only a 17.25" section of wall (just drywall, no framing underneath) would need to be removed. The external overflow in the diagram would be on the wall of the equipment closet. It will be fairly small, but should suffice since I only want about 500-800gph flowing through the sump.

Goal is to avoid rear corner internal overflows with only access via the front and over the top...

 

[drummereef]

Tagging on this one for sure!

 

[ekovalsky]

Well the tank design is about finalized. It is basically a 180 on steroids. Here is the 3D design which I made with Sketchup. Great software -- powerful, easy to learn and use, and best of all free! I attached the 3D model file to this message as a ZIP in case anyone wants to play around with it.

Display tank
Dimensions: 76"L x 28"W x 27"H
Front: PPG starphire
Sides: regular glass
Rear: regular glass, CNC machined weir top edge
Bottom: 1" Sch80 PVC
Bracing: 3/4" acrylic perimeter

External Overflow
Dimensions: 76"L x 4-1/4"W x 8"H
Construction: 3/8" acrylic
Linear overflow: 64 inches (without teeth)

Holes / Bulkheads
Display tank bottom
2 x 2" bulkheads, holes 3-3/8" for CL drains
4 x 1" bulkheads, holes 2" for CL#1 returns (OM 4-way circuit)
1 x 1-1/2" bulkhead, hole 2-3/4" for CL#2 return (chiller circuit)
Overflow rear wall
2 x 1-1/4" bulkheads, holes 2-3/8" for external Durso drains
Overflow bottom
2 x 1" bulkheads, holes 2", for sump return lines

Notes:

1. Aquascape to be supported by PVC manifolds plumbed to closed loop return lines
2. Sump return lines to feed manifold lying atop perimeter brace
3. Space constraints restrict width of external overflow box to 4-1/4" along most of its length; open space behind right side (extending into equipment closet) to accodate Durso external drains with 90 street ells inserted directly into rear wall bulkheads

Remaining decisions... please state your opinion/suggestion if you have one!

1. ? build with 1/2" tempered versus 3/4" annealed glass
2. ? eliminate CL#2 and plumb chiller in line with sump return; use Reeflo Tarpon or GRI 14518 pump rather than Eheim 1262 for sump return

 

[20 20]

I must be missing something, with the external overflow going the whole length of the tank, won't the thank be sticking out from the wall? Or are you going to be taking out more wall than the diagram a few posts above?

 

[ekovalsky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8813886#post8813886 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 20 20
I must be missing something, with the external overflow going the whole length of the tank, won't the thank be sticking out from the wall? Or are you going to be taking out more wall than the diagram a few posts above?

You're exactly right. I will be removing drywall and also sections of (non-load bearing studs) behind the tank area, see the yellow areas in the attached .pdf

I will be lining the back side of the drywall (of the powder room behind the tank) with neoprene sheets or waterproof plastic wall panels.

 

[ekovalsky]

Fortunately I know what is behind the walls already, thanks to pictures taken during the construction of our home back in 2001-2002. I need to remove the drywall and three vertical 2x4 stud sections from 4' - 6' height to accomodate the external overflow box. Also I will be cutting out the back side of the niche on the right into the closet, which will house most equipment. Behind the rest of the niche is a secondary powder room. It would make a great fishroom but we've already spent a considerable $ making it nice, and it services the family wing of the house, sacrificing it is not an option.

Thankfully my gorgeous wife is very accomodating, in fact she is on my case to stop planning and designing and start doing something to get this project going! And yes she has a vague idea of what this is going to cost... if I stay under $20K or so initially I should be safe and may not need to procure any expensive jewelry to make her copathetic. As my hobbies go, this one is not the most costly...

Here are pics of the area to be worked on:

Taken during framing late in 2001

Drywall up and built-ins getting installed in early 2002

Current appearance before demolition starts

 

[invincible569]

Eric, any updates on your room?

 

[jacmyoung]

Beautiful setting! Just one thing since you are going to take out the back wall, consider having a much wider tank built, at least 36"D. Just a thought, I have no doubt your current plan will look stunning.

 

[ekovalsky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8971676#post8971676 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jacmyoung
Beautiful setting! Just one thing since you are going to take out the back wall, consider having a much wider tank built, at least 36"D. Just a thought, I have no doubt your current plan will look stunning.

Glad you asked about this becuase it I've been thinking about going wider... hopefully others can give their input and help me decide.

The small room you can see behind the tank area is a powder room. When we moved in it was very cheaply finished as we were running out of money. It would have been a perfect fish room, the toilet plumbing could have been a floor drain. My wife subsequently had our decorators remodel it -- at significant cost -- and it now looks fantastic. It also gets a lot of use as it services the family wing of the house. Needless to say sacrificing this room is not an option, hence there will be no fish room, nor can I accomodate a 36" or wider tank.

Existing niche is 28-1/2" deep, but I can remove the drywall from the back and also sections of the studs between the niche and powder room. This will provide an additional 4" clearance, potentially accomodating a 32" deep tank... or a 28" deep tank with a narrow "coast-to-coast" external overflow. If the entire tank is made 32" deep, then I will need to use either an internal overflow or an external off the right rear or right side.

Cutting out the stud sections wll be a bit tricky. The drywall of the powder room has intricate hand painting on it, of course. So I'll need to use a nail/screw finder and make cuts with a radial saw as close as possible to the nails/screws then either use a hacksaw to cut them off or carefully whittle them out of the drywall and patch the holes. Of course I must also protect the drywall from moisture, probably I'll just use adhesive to attach the 1.5mm Plastex waterproof wall panels.

Should I go with a 32" deep tank and opt for an internal overflow, a center design may be best -- much like this fantastic tank designed and built by RC member kris4647. The overflow (and maybe CL returns) could support a large reef structure, with another pillar and an island completing the aquascape.

Either the center internal or small external overflow will be limited to 16-24 linear inches, excluding teeth. This is probably sufficient as I only plan on sending 800gph or so through the skimmer to the sump. But obviously I will be limited if I ever want to increase flow through the sump in the future.

One thing I have been considering is reef ceramics back plates as a backdrop. These take up to 6" near the bottom (tapering higher up) and only with a 32" wide tank would I even consider it. I'd love to illuminate the rear panel with blue light and a diffusor but there definitely will not be room for that, unless someone makes a very thin electroluminescent sheet. Handi foam with some LR rubble is another possibility although I have concerns about the long term integrity of the foam. Since the back of the tank will be hard to access, I will keep light off it, if necessary by placing a strip of black acrylic along the perimeter brace. I may do this up front and on the sides as well.

So what would you do ? Any suggestions for backdrop would be welcomed too!

• 28" wide tank with coast-to-coast external overflow (approx 64 linear inches)
• 32" wide tank with center internal overflow (approx 24 linear inches)
• 32" wide tank with external overflow (approx 22 linear inches)

Whatever I end up doing, I knowt hat Scott (woodwrangler) will make it beautiful!

 

[jacmyoung]

I would consider the width (front to back) before the overflow locations. I am against the center box since your tank is not a room divider it limits your aquascaping options. You don't need the center box to achieve the look of that tank in your link.

One thing to consider since the tank is very long, overflows can be located on the two short ends, and use skin to cover them in the front. I am not big on very long and flat shapes since I am a firm believer of Golden Rule. Of course just my personal taste, I have seen gorgeous long tanks. In fact my previous in-wall tank was a bid long. So the third option will be just as good and makes maintenance much easier.

 

[kelhuffman]

Opinions being what they are, here's mine anyway since I have a somewhat similar setup size, materials and flush against a wall etc. Avoid the center overflow if you can due to aquascaping issues, keep it external if at all possible. Don't sweat the small linear inch overflow, my external overflow is 11" and the +-800G flowing through to the basement is ample and I haven't needed more circulation on any system in a decade or so. Go for as much width as you can, but it seems to me that eeking out the xtra 4" by removing studs etc., probably isn't worth it. This is definitely a personal taste thing, but skip the reef ceramics back walls and go with unobtrusive black. To me those ceramics shrink the look of the tank and tend to make them look a bit like caves/grottos.

one other thought, does the tank have to be flush? Have you considered having it intrude into the room a bit to get some extra width and even a little bit of a side view? Good cabinetry finishing could make this work nicely so long as its not intruding into your entries etc.

 

[ekovalsky]

jacmyoung and kelhuffman,

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I'm working on a revised design with a wider tank, using an internal overflow on the right side which would be concealed by the skin. While I would lose the "coast to coast" overflow I can probably get by with 600gph through the sump and skimmer, and this will avoid cutting into the drywall and studs on the back of the niche and potentially damaging the hand painted drywall on the other side. My wife will be very happy about this Cutting into the drywall and removing studs on the sides of the niche won't result in a headaches or damage that cannot be easily repaired.

 

[jacmyoung]

You are a smart man, at the end of the day making the wife happy is by far the most important