Finally! In Tank AEFW Treatment Success

[Laser Lammons]

Just a question, not trying to be all animal cruelty, but by "success", that means saving the SPS Corals at the possible sacrifice of the fish?

We lost 4 fish in all and were able to get about 15 fish in a 100 gallon horse trough for safe keeping until the treatment is over. 4 fish are still in the display and we have been trying to catch them since the first treatment. I did state that we felt the fish would suffer upon intro of the first treatment so we did all we could to remove them prior and were able to scoop up several more when they were stunned. I feel that by doing this treatment we have saved about 100 acro colonies at the sacrifice of the 4 fish so yes I do consider it a success in the tank we were treating.
Now if the tank has a few acros that can actually be removed then the dipping method is surely the best way. I will say that on my brothers tank before intro into his dispay he did run a 3 month QT with a dipping program consisting of bayer. I can assure you that all the acros that went into his tank were properly dipped but the eggs are able to make it through so any new frag that is introduced,even if dipped, has the potential to bring in eggs. As does liverock, other coral frags possibly, you name it and it could bring it into a captive system. He did not QT 6 frags that were introduced into his tank about 2-3 months ago but did dip them. That is where the AEFW had to come from and we will not point fingers as to where they came from as that is not what this thread is all about. Just trying to share my experience and possibly help others in the future.
So how to keep them out. qt with dips and no acro in display until proper time cycle achieved. Any new frag intro must go through same process to assure no eggs hatching.
Personally, I will never add anything more than a fresh cut acro, unmounted, dipped, then remounted to assure no eggs under base.
Best I can tell anyway..

 

[jda]

...what is the sales pitch on doing this over using Levamisole? ...or is it just an either-or kind of thing?

Also, any way to know/suppose that it was the potassium and not the elevated chloride ions or salinity?

 

[Laser Lammons]

...what is the sales pitch on doing this over using Levamisole? ...or is it just an either-or kind of thing?

Also, any way to know/suppose that it was the potassium and not the elevated chloride ions or salinity?

I suppose either/or depending on your setup

I dont know as a chemist but I can say that previous to treatment of entire tank we did dip some corals and saw aefw being obliterated. We only used 1 teaspoon in a half gallon so salinity not raised enough to matter IMO. Elevated Cl maybe some effect but Randy would have to chime in on that one. I think previous data using http://wamas.org/forums/topic/33942-lanmans-acropora-eating-flatworm-aefw-thread/ makes me think it is the elevated potassium...

 

[afernandez]

I'd use Levamisole if you really wanted to ensure AEFW were gone for good. Without an acro present in the tank, they'd die out anyway.

Thanks bud!

Great more reading lol! I don't know too much about levamisole ..the very little I know is that ppl used it in the past and it crashed a few systems . But like I said I don't know much on it at all. I will read up on this topic .

Any advise at this point and time is appreciated . What's conserning me is "something's" in my overflow that look like some type of flat worm but are much larger. I will take some pictures when I get home

 

[Laser Lammons]

Spoke with Kate this evening and here is what she said:

"For the sake of your acropora I would go ahead and do a second treatment tonight. It will be interesting to see if anymore big AEFW (that are visible with the naked eye) come off, if so they will have somehow survived the initial treatment.
We can try the treatment on eggs and hatchlings when we have some. I don't keep a tank myself but I'm collaborating with Cat Dybala in Texas and she has two Acropora tanks that she useds for the AEFW experiments. She has had to restart the tanks after a bacterial infection killed off the corals, so it will be a few months or so until we can try this. She is currently sourcing Acropora and then has to "source" the AEFW!
I think that to accurately tell whether the KCL solution is killing the embryos we will need a good microscope and I have access to a good one in Texas. Keep us posted on your second treatment - it would be so great if this was the answer to all AEFW problems.
Best,
Kate"

 

[Laser Lammons]

we have now mixed the second treatment batch and will treat at 10PM central. Wish us luck...:celeb3:

 

[afernandez]

Interested in second treatment results as well !
Best of luck fighting this war in the front lines :uzi:

 

[Laser Lammons]

TREATMENT #2 PERFORMED 12/18/2014

Observations: Minimal AEFW observed. Death toll of all small creatures seemed to be much less than first treatment. There were a few AEFW and all seemed to be proportionate in size around size of rolling pen. I "believe" but certainly cannot substantiate that we were seeing AEFW that had been hatched since the last treatment. We will plan on a third treatment in 2 weeks (Jan 1) as a final treatment.

Coral observations: I have to admit we contemplated not doing the treatment as the acro were looking so good again after the first treatment. We saw a much different response it seemed. Most milles actually kept PE during the treatment and are really looking pretty normal already this morning. Acros slimed again but already have PE this morning as well. It seems the acros built a resistance of sorts and really handled the treatment better this time.

We will observe the snails today to see if they come back again like they did last time from long nap.. We have minimal snails as most were already taken out to QT but enough to observe.

Fish observations: Fish did not seem to build any tolerance to the treatment like the corals did. Understand we only had 4 fish left to base this on but they seemed to be stunned instantly this time and we were able to catch all and transfer into the QT. Happy to report that all are alive this morning and have already eaten. They would not have made it long in tank this time if we would not have caught them I don't believe.



1st treatment yielded changing of filter socks about every 2 hours after first treatment with all the floaters.

2nd treatment yeilded a changing of filter socks directly after treatment and then again this morning so much less death has occured. :blown:



We will continue to watch responses and report back findings.

 

[Laser Lammons]

Continuing with water changes as we did after first treatment. did a 25% change last night 30 minutes after treatment. Performed another 25% change at about 3AM and have performed another 25% change at 9AM. Making more water and will change again this evening. We will then do another 50% change tomorrow morning.

 

[Laser Lammons]

Forgot to mention that it appears no effect on the LPS again. Zoas/Palys still completely closed but suspect they will open again today as they did first treatment.

 

[Redrosetuscan]

Sounds good!

As a side note I simply do not believe there isn't a natural predator of these.

They come in from the wild where if there wasn't a predator all acros on that reef would be dead within a few months. As a side side note maybe not all coral bleaching is bleaching at all and is aefw eating them but the scientists love to tout climate change.....

I have seen on reefs randomly dead acros, but I'd put the random ones down to crown of thorns.

 

[jda]

There are natural predators. They just don't live in the lagoons where the AQ corals are raised. I have never seen any on wild acros. I see them on the plugs of AQ and Mari colonies, along with TONs nudis.

 

[Laser Lammons]

Day 18 update:
Treatment #2 went well and all SPS is recovering nicely again. Now that we have performed water changes --- 125% total --- all SPS has great PE again and regaining colors quickly. All LPS and palys/zoas have been uneffected and really looking good. They are actually growing much quicker than before treatment due to the high nutrients that are now present due to all the die off.
We have incurrred a pretty bad outbreak of hair algae and will have to deal with that once the treatments are over but nothing that a good cleanup crew will not be able to take care of pretty quick. Over all I would say this is very exciting developments that we have seen. Through the 2 treatments we have only lost about 3 small frags and one medium sized colony that was already badly infested.
We will perform a third treatment (and any further needed based on seeing aefw) until we get rid of these pests. We are winning the war now we feel!!!

 

[reefnjunkie]

Day 18 update:
Treatment #2 went well and all SPS is recovering nicely again. Now that we have performed water changes --- 125% total --- all SPS has great PE again and regaining colors quickly. All LPS and palys/zoas have been uneffected and really looking good. They are actually growing much quicker than before treatment due to the high nutrients that are now present due to all the die off.
We have incurrred a pretty bad outbreak of hair algae and will have to deal with that once the treatments are over but nothing that a good cleanup crew will not be able to take care of pretty quick. Over all I would say this is very exciting developments that we have seen. Through the 2 treatments we have only lost about 3 small frags and one medium sized colony that was already badly infested.
We will perform a third treatment (and any further needed based on seeing aefw) until we get rid of these pests. We are winning the war now we feel!!!

Thanks for information and the updates this is very exciting and I would have loved to have this as an option 2 years ago as to having to remove colonies from my 400 gallon-If I was to get them again, it would be impossible to get the acros out since some are the size of serving platters.

Inhumane perhaps but I'd have to sacrifice any livestock I was unable to catch.

It's hadn't seen it mentioned but where there any anemone in the tank during treatment?

You also mentioned a mini cycle-does that mean the beneficial bacteria died as well-

Thanks again

 

[Laser Lammons]

Thanks for information and the updates this is very exciting and I would have loved to have this as an option 2 years ago as to having to remove colonies from my 400 gallon-If I was to get them again, it would be impossible to get the acros out since some are the size of serving platters.

Inhumane perhaps but I'd have to sacrifice any livestock I was unable to catch.

It's hadn't seen it mentioned but where there any anemone in the tank during treatment?

You also mentioned a mini cycle-does that mean the beneficial bacteria died as well-

Thanks again

At least we may now have an option for colony type sps setups. Not sure on the bacteria issue yet. We have seen good response from the SPS so I assume some of the beneficial bacteria is still present. May still take time to see response if all beneficial bacteria is gone..

 

[Laser Lammons]

no anemones in the tank so not sure effect on them

 

[Laser Lammons]

Day 23 update:
SPS is recovering on similar timetable to first treatment. They have really colored up back up and have excellent PE.
Many snails have woke up and are working again on the hair algae outbreak.

Observations:
It seems that after the treatment and during the water changes that corals that were exposed to air for longer than about 5 minutes really suffered and we lost a couple. He has several frags in his frag tank as well and only the tallest tray that gets exposed to air during water changes is exhibiting losses. It seems after the treatment the acros are very weak and cannot take a lot of O2.
During the change we did splash most acros and they all survived. Only had problems with two acros that were exposed for about 7 minutes with no splashing or wet down of any kind. Just on observation if anyone tries this going forward.
I would say to this point that it appears the beneficial bacteria is still in place as the corals exhibit an ability to regain colors and PE quickly. We have seen a pretty bad outbreak of hair algae but I can really attribute that to the treatment or a fish that dove under the sand and we never recovered. All in all corals looking very good again and getting ready for treatment #3 on Thursday evening. Hopefully it will be the last and we will not see any more AEFW stragglers...

 

[Laser Lammons]

Treatment #3 Performed 1/1/15:

Observations of treatment #3 were very encouraging as we DID NOT see any more aefw (or any tiny life for that matter) during the treatment. Corals seemed to respond well again as many kept PE this time and seem to be getting used to the elevated potassium spikes. We literally saw nothing in the water column this time including a lack of pods. We performed two different 25% water changes last night and will perform 2 more 25% changes today and a 50% change on Saturday morning. (this is same process we used for each treatment).
We have beat the dreaded AEFW with this in tank treatment :hammer:and will now observe the recovery of the acros. We plan to get water back to normal through water changes and bring K back down to around 400-450. We will then add a clean up crew back in the display to combat the algae outbreak that occured from all the death. We plan to add the fish back at the end of week along with the rest of the inhabitants we were able to catch and QT during the treatements. I will update in the next few days to assure recovery progresses as we have seen with the first two treatments.

 

[billrob71]

Treatment #3 Performed 1/1/15:

Observations of treatment #3 were very encouraging as we DID NOT see any more aefw (or any tiny life for that matter) during the treatment. Corals seemed to respond well again as many kept PE this time and seem to be getting used to the elevated potassium spikes. We literally saw nothing in the water column this time including a lack of pods. We performed two different 25% water changes last night and will perform 2 more 25% changes today and a 50% change on Saturday morning. (this is same process we used for each treatment).
We have beat the dreaded AEFW with this in tank treatment :hammer:and will now observe the recovery of the acros. We plan to get water back to normal through water changes and bring K back down to around 400-450. We will then add a clean up crew back in the display to combat the algae outbreak that occured from all the death. We plan to add the fish back at the end of week along with the rest of the inhabitants we were able to catch and QT during the treatements. I will update in the next few days to assure recovery progresses as we have seen with the first two treatments.

What size is your display tank you are treating, and your using 1 pound per gallon of tank water ?

 

[Laser Lammons]

What size is your display tank you are treating, and your using 1 pound per gallon of tank water ?

Treatment tank was 300 gallons. To mix in tank solution --- 1 lb KCL for every 50 gallons tank volume (for the mixture I used 5 gallon buckets and added up to about 7 lb KCL). This will make it easier to just pour one 5 gallon bucket solution and wait 30 minutes to change water..