Finally modded my Sicce to run the first time, everytime....

[badazztealcobra]

Well, like some of you I bought a MSX250 skimmer (although these pumps are used with MANY setups) for my new setup but was having problems with the pump running.... I found that the pump just isnt clearanced enough to allow for the zip ties. Some people are using fishing line to try to help, other people are leaving the volute cover loose, I just had my buddy machine my pump to allow for the zip ties....

First thing was finding the center of the pump....

Then let the bit do its thing......

Then the pump is finished.... The other color is where the plastic just isn't colored....

My buddy is a plastic injection mold maker by trade so I had no problem with him modding my pumps.

I have had the pumps in a bucket of SW for the past few hours and after unplugging them and plugging them back in hundreds of times (at all different intervals from 30 seconds to 10 minutes) I have yet to have it not start immediately....

I'm running 3 layers on enkamat on the pump, with zip ties, and it's pulling only 17 to 18 watts on either pump..... :thumbsup:

I dont have an air meter so I can't check that at the moment....

I think tomorrow im going to put the skimmer into my 40B to have the entire skimmer run.....

 

[younglcy]

How much did you shave off? What size bit did you use, and, did you use a flat or beveled bit? My pump runs great, but still doesn't start on its own.

 

[badazztealcobra]

I don't know all that stuff.... I give it to the guy who does it for a living and he fixed 'em for me. :lol:

He measured all over the impellar with some calipers then went from there....

I leave all the numbers to the guy who runs a cnc all day. :lol:

 

[tkeracer619]

Now thats how you are supposed to mod a pump! Hopefully MS will have the pumps modded in a similar fashion. Shame they don't start on their own each time without it.

Maybe you could have your buddy write down what bit he used and how deep he went. It will make getting this done at a machine shop easier and cheaper for those who have it.

 

[badazztealcobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11644782#post11644782 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tkeracer619
Now thats how you are supposed to mod a pump!

Maybe you could have your buddy write down what bit he used and how deep he went. It will make getting this done at a machine shop easier and cheaper for those who have it.

I'm sure he wouldn't mind doing more of them for some side work.... if anyones interested shoot me a PM and we can go from there....

 

[Mr James]

Hmmm. I have a Sicce pump on my BM200 and it runs fine from what I can see. I can't believe the skimmer body is in question. Yet on the other hand, shouldn't these skimmers work right out of the gate?? My Sicce has one layer of mesh I guess. Why are you shooting for more than one layer??

Here's mine.

 

[ostrow]

Mr. James yours has 2 layers of Enkamat Flatbottom, if it is an ATI out-of-the-box.

 

[badazztealcobra]

I thought the 3 layers was a good amount... thats what came stock on the pumps.

The issue isn't how many layers of enkamat on there, the problem is the thickness the zipties added to the back of the impellar.... when the volute was tightened all the way down the zipties would get caught on the pump body itself.

 

[Mr James]

Ostrow, do you know what is going on with these skimmers then that they have to mod the pumps??

 

[Mr James]

by badazztealcobra
I thought the 3 layers was a good amount... thats what came stock on the pumps.

The issue isn't how many layers of enkamat on there, the problem is the thickness the zipties added to the back of the impellar.... when the volute was tightened all the way down the zipties would get caught on the pump body itself.

Why don't you contact the manufacturer or e-tailer and have them fix the problem??

 

[badazztealcobra]

Theyre working on doing the same thing, I just found it easier to take it to my buddy since it's what he does for a living.

I've maintained (In my opinion of course) that something has to be different on the pumps that ATI is using, since when you tighten the volute cover down all the way the back of the stock needlewheel impellar is just a hair above the pump body, so when you add the zip-ties it makes it too thick and wont make it start reliably....

Nobody with an ATI would take any pictures or measurements for me though when I was asking.... Either the bottom nipple is larger raising the impellar up or the pump housing itself is clearanced like I did or something... I just don't see any way that they could've put zipties behind the stock setup without it rubbing...

What kind of watts are you drawing on the ATI ??? at 17w with 3 layers on enkamat I couldn't be happier with the results of clearancing.

 

[ostrow]

It's just I didn't want to disconnect the pumps and kill the foam head on my skimmer right now, for a variety of reasons.

The inside of my pumps was never modded. I had an ATI and those were not modded either, or they did an unbelievable job of disguising it. I know because I had new-from-Sicce unmodded in any way pumps and an ATI at the same time.

Mr. James, I don't own an Octopus skimmer and have no plans to so can't answer your question, I'm afraid.

My pumps will start on their own normally. When my skimmer had 2 pumps they started on their own all the time and pulled 26-27lpm at about 33-35 watts.

With 3 pumps they pull 20-21, don't seem to start on their own, and pull 24 watts or so. Not sure why they are less willing to start but I'm ok with it for now.

 

[ostrow]

I'm not sure how you know the gap between the impeller wheel and the pump when the cover is closed, by the way, unless you have x-ray vision or something!

I still say your o-ring is too thick and is pressing down too tight on the impeller. I originally eliminated all start-up issues by replacing the o-rings.

 

[Mr James]

by badazztealcobra
Nobody with an ATI would take any pictures or measurements for me though when I was asking.... Either the bottom nipple is larger raising the impellar up or the pump housing itself is clearanced like I did or something... I just don't see any way that they could've put zipties behind the stock setup without it rubbing...

What kind of watts are you drawing on the ATI ??? at 17w with 3 layers on enkamat I couldn't be happier with the results of clearancing.

If you need pictures of some kind, I can take them and show you what mine looks like. I just avoid many of the ATi skimmer discussions because they get out of hand and some get shut down. Since this is a Sicce pump thread, ask away!!

You would hope that SWC or MSX or whoever put this skimmer together, granted it's a BM knockoff, would have tested these things. I know if we were to send snowmobiles out the door without being tested and issues arose, warranty claims would be through the roof and the company would take a hit. If the zip-ties are interfering with the pump housing, then there is an issue that shouldn't be your problem.

I don't know what kind of wattage of air flow mine is pulling. I don't have any of those fancy meters, but I would test it if I had one.

 

[badazztealcobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11645117#post11645117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
I'm not sure how you know the gap between the impeller wheel and the pump when the cover is closed, by the way, unless you have x-ray vision or something!

I still say your o-ring is too thick and is pressing down too tight on the impeller. I originally eliminated all start-up issues by replacing the o-rings.

It still has the problem with no o-rings, so that's not the problem... I dont see how the o-ring that selas the volute cover is foring it down further either.... the tabs on the volute cover get notched into the bluck output housing, the o-rin that sleas the two would have nothing with how far it's going down into the output housing, the tabs do that.....

All these things are IMO or course because I don't want to start some huge debate, but just looking at things logically.

 

[luke33]

Pretty sure the problem is that the zip ties are right at the body of the impeller. They will rub when modded like that. I plan on drilling them closer to the sides here soon. If i were't testing the skimmers i'd do it right now, but i will let it go a few days, then try that. If you place the sip ties at teh end or further out there will be no friction with them.

 

[GSMguy]

Luke did you adjust the mesh on the sicce at all on the new skimmer?

 

[luke33]

I trimmed it down a bit, but nothing other than that. Hell, i'm going to go ahead and drill and redo it right now, i'll post back in a bit....and i'm going to redo the mesh as well. Hopefully it'll work, and yes i'll take pics. If the ati runs fine, so should this one, its gotta be the placement of the zip ties, i've never seen them that far in.

 

[celano]

Luke if you mod the pump on your 200 wont that interfere with your testing the recirc Octo vs. the 200? Or are you already done testing them head to head?

 

[hahnmeister]

... or, you can just skip zip-ties and use fishing-line/monowire, and easily eliminate the startup problems. The reduced weight on the impeller reduced the startup torque on the pump as well.