Finally Trying to Spawn Black Cap Basslets

[oceanarus]

Yep Martin Moe is the real deal. I think he seems so sweet. I would love to shake his hand. There is no one like him and there never will be again in this business. He really has had his heart in the right place. I wish more people were like him. But again I'm impressed with you as well.

Amy

 

["Umm fish?"]

I'd love to shake Martin's hand, too. I hear he's made some breakthroughs in urchin culture. I'm looking forward to reading what he's come up with.

Amy, 22 species raised in five years? Nice. Congratulations! I think I'm up to about 9 species spawned in the last five months, but I've only raised two species now. And Banggais shouldn't really count.

 

[oceanarus]

Andy,
Thank you so much. And you are kicking some butt sir six line wrasses......sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I have to disagree with you. As far as I'm concerned Bandaii count!!!!!! I know they are pretty easy but these fish need us. And for that reason I am crazy about anybody who takes the time for them. They are not the best money fish. But I think that will change. And they can be a pain (males not holding). But if you are working with them you count them. And you count !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just my 2 cents.

Amy

 

[oceanarus]

And Andy I think I've seen you somewhere on a forum with Richard Ross. That is another guy that I think seems like a sweetie. So if you talk to him sometime could you please tell him I said thanks for kicking so much butt....haha. He won't know who the heck I am but one day I swear I will send that guy some culls. That poor man is always asking for some on threads.

Amy

 

[ediaz]

Basslets are easy to spawn and rear, regardless of what you read, start with two very small individuals, if you don't know a wholesaler ask the LFS and they will get them for you.

Collectors do not catch them cause no one buys them , stores want big ones.

Anyway I do this with loreto, bred them last year, i place 2 less than 1" fish in a tank they will become a pair or you can do it guessing, the hard way. Feed shrimp and squid they will spawn as soon as they mature.

Amy if you wanted to shake Martins hand and even have drinks with him you shoud have gone to IMAC when Joe and I invited you, nice to hear from you.

regards to your husband,
E

 

[oceanarus]

ediaz,
OMG so nice to hear from you. I know I should have went. But when you have so many tanks and no one you trust it really makes it hard. And Joe is still my most favorite fish guy for sure !!!Moe is actually second to Joe for me. But I have to say Alan and I split some time ago. We are still great friends though and I love him to death. I will let him know you said hi. And thanks about the Basslet info....I'm on it !!!!!!!!!!

Amy

 

["Umm fish?"]

Amy--Thanks! I'll certainly talk to Rich. Maybe someday I'll have the guts to do what Rich does. Can you imagine? One screw-up with the larvae and you've blown your broodstock's entire existence. Shudder. Talk about pressure....

 

[oceanarus]

Andy,
Thanks so much !!!! I have this strong belief in telling great people how great they are. And this guy seems like that. By this I mean someone who seems great on the inside too. There are a lot of people in this business that do cool things but are pretty nasty people. So when I think someone is nice I like to let them know. And you are right he is doing really important work .I would loose my mind. And also I'm a huge fan of squidbillies ........haha !!! (his avatar somewhere else)

Amy

 

[oceanarus]

I have worked with Banggai off and on for years. And somehow I can think of a thousand ways to mis-spell that name .Banngai, banggaii, bandaii, what the ? I do it everytime for some reason. So here is to hoping that maybe in the next few years of fish breeding I'll remember how to spell it. LOL

Amy

 

[monicaswizzle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15450834#post15450834 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ediaz
Basslets are easy to spawn and rear, regardless of what you read, start with two very small individuals, if you don't know a wholesaler ask the LFS and they will get them for you.

Collectors do not catch them cause no one buys them , stores want big ones.

Anyway I do this with loreto, bred them last year, i place 2 less than 1" fish in a tank they will become a pair or you can do it guessing, the hard way. Feed shrimp and squid they will spawn as soon as they mature.

E

E--

Thanks for the comment. I have been busy at work and messing with other things in my tank, so I hadn't responded.

If I understand what you are saying, you are indicating that basslets are "like clownfish" in that a young pair will (almost) always develop one female and one male and become a mated pair. This is contrary to the (relatively limited) literature on black caps, and I believe also on Loretos. Either I am misunderstanding you (in which case, please elaborate), the literature is wrong (possible I suppose, there hasn't been tons of research), or you have just "been lucky" when you paired juevinile loretos.

If it is "exactly" like clownfish, I should have been able to add a small bcb to my tank with a large female in it and the small bcb should have matured into (stayed) male, creating a mated pair. In fact the bcb was small when added (smaller than usually traded--less than 2") and despite growing almost an inch since addition, the two fish still show no interest in one another unless one of them tries to invade the other's territory during feeding time.

Hmm...Anyway, even if you are correct, it is too late for me to add two small fish, since I have two adults in the tank and have no plans to move them out. I will keep my eye peeled for an adult that "looks" male to me and see if I can get spawning that way. In the meantime, I would be interested if I have misunderstood what you meant, or if you have done the pairing that way often enough that you believe it can't just be "luck".

Thanks

 

[oceanarus]

The larger one will be the male and the smaller one will be female. I wish I could tell you more but that is all I know. Maybe E will be back on here soon. I'm hoping he will let us know how he collected the larvae or if he just took the eggs.
E if you are out there we would love to hear from you. LOL

Amy

 

[monicaswizzle]

Amy--

According to Matthew Wittenrich's book (p199), what you say is true for Royals, but doesn't appear to be true for Black Caps. The book isn't explicit that it isn't true for BCB, but says it is a "unique" trait of the Royals. Maybe no one was sure at the time about BCB? Do you know of a source that claims BCB share this ability to determine sex as they reach maturity?

Thanks!

 

[oceanarus]

I'm sorry I was thinking of royal grammas. I don't know if there is any size difference once blk caps are mature. I'll see if I can find out more. But it may be a good idea if you are serious about breeding blk caps to try some new fish in a different tank. I know that they can be hard to find and kinda expensive but if I were you thats what I would do. This way you would increase your chances of getting a spawning pair.

Amy

 

[monicaswizzle]

Well, I can't say as I am "serious" about it, but I certainly wouldn't mind it happening. Before the mysterious death of my previous male, we seemed to be getting closer. He and the surviving female displayed for one another non stop. I was just about to add some calupera (sp?) to the tank and some squid to their diet when everything went wacky.

I haven't the energy to add another tank now (I am still reducing my "herd" of 18 FW tanks so I can focus more time on the salt), but if I get lucky and can add a male to the current tank, I do have a setup for raising fry.

Thanks for the interest. Male Black caps are believed to tend towards somewhat LONGER, or at least thinner and therefore longer looking than females. The females can get pretty robust, as my current two are good examples. The males tend to stay more slender. Very hard traits to judge in younger fish, which is generally what is on the market. (Not as young as would be needed to do the Royal sex determination "trick", but too young to be fully grown and therefore all look fairly slender until you fatten them up for a while.)

Cheers

 

[ediaz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15534200#post15534200 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by monicaswizzle
E--

Thanks for the comment. I have been busy at work and messing with other things in my tank, so I hadn't responded.

If I understand what you are saying, you are indicating that basslets are "like clownfish" in that a young pair will (almost) always develop one female and one male and become a mated pair. This is contrary to the (relatively limited) literature on black caps, and I believe also on Loretos. Either I am misunderstanding you (in which case, please elaborate), the literature is wrong (possible I suppose, there hasn't been tons of research), or you have just "been lucky" when you paired juevinile loretos.


If it is "exactly" like clownfish, I should have been able to add a small bcb to my tank with a large female in it and the small bcb should have matured into (stayed) male, creating a mated pair. In fact the bcb was small when added (smaller than usually traded--less than 2") and despite growing almost an inch since addition, the two fish still show no interest in one another unless one of them tries to invade the other's territory during feeding time.

Hmm...Anyway, even if you are correct,it is too late for me to add two small fish, since I have two adults in the tank and have no plans to move them out. I will keep my eye peeled for an adult that "looks" male to me and see if I can get spawning that way. In the meantime, I would be interested if I have misunderstood what you meant, or if you have done the pairing that way often enough that you believe it can't just be "luck".

Thanks

Hello Monica,

I did not say that please read my post no mention of clownfish, 2 small ones will create a pair.At my level of breeding success you dont get lucky;-) Remenber that this forum is for sharing information so all can benefit and my tip can help someone else looking to pair.

"Hmm...Anyway, even if you are correct"
maybe im not but im pretty sure i was the only one breeding and rearing them past meta last year in the whole US.

Hello Amy,

most people use algae as a nesting material I use filter floss when they lay I simply remove the cotton ball and hatch it as i would do with dottybacks eggs.

Take care,
The E

 

[oceanarus]

Thank you E. Filter floss is a great idea too. I don't want to have to look for larvae if and when I try this so thanks for sharing.

Amy

 

[monicaswizzle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15550832#post15550832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ediaz
Hello Monica,

I did not say that please read my post no mention of clownfish, 2 small ones will create a pair.At my level of breeding success you dont get lucky;-) Remenber that this forum is for sharing information so all can benefit and my tip can help someone else looking to pair.

"Hmm...Anyway, even if you are correct"
maybe im not but im pretty sure i was the only one breeding and rearing them past meta last year in the whole US.

Hello Amy,

most people use algae as a nesting material I use filter floss when they lay I simply remove the cotton ball and hatch it as i would do with dottybacks eggs.

Take care,
The E

E--Thanks for taking the time to make an additional comment. It sounds as if you have done a fair amount of black cap basslet breeding. Have you written any of your experience up somewhere that I could read about it?

Cheers--

 

[ediaz]

No problem,

I have notes on how to breed more than 25 species but never publish any.

I rarely come here


If you need more help pm me or contact me on facebook/Theediaz

E

 

[monicaswizzle]

Hi all. E seems to have made a generous offer to help me with specific questions, but despite sending him pm, email and a message on facebook I haven't heard back. (Maybe he travels a fair amount?)

Anyway, since he has advised that two juvenile bcb will form a pair and subsequently clarified that the process is evidently different from the process of sex determination in clownfish, I am left speculating as to why what he says may be true. My current theory is that maybe bcb are similar in sex determination as to what Matthew W reports for royal grammas. As I understand that, the young can determine their gender based on the "needs" of the local population. If there is a surplus of females they will become males and if there is "male pressure" they will become female. Matthew does not say that this is also true of bcb, which he reports to be gonochoristic--which I understand to mean that gender is determined at birth, but maybe I don't understand the subtleties of the term or maybe Matthew's information about bcb was incomplete. Everyone seems to agree that once the fish is mature the gender is fixed, which is definitely different than male clowns which are reported to be able to further mature into female if the need arises.

Anyway, in the absence of any clarification as to what E meant, I am wondering if I would have success if I added a very young bcb to my tank which currently has two females in it. Given the "need" of a male, it would seem that a juvenile fish might develop into a male and subsequently spawn with one or both of the females.

Any thoughts on this approach? How young would the young fish need to be to be sure that it hadn't already set its gender? E seems to recommend a fish less than 1" long. One problem I can imagine is that even if the theory here is correct, I am not sure how two adult females will respond to a very young bcb. If they "left it alone" to mature, it might become an adult male, but if they attacked it for any reason it might simply die and not mature at all. Since my tank has many many caves formed by live rock, it probably could hide, but it might be hard to feed if they were not neutral to it.

Unless someone has experience to advise otherwise, I might try getting a very small bcb, rather than trying to identify an adult male by subtle body signs.

 

[holmstar]

Been a very long time. Did you ever manage to find a male/fry?