victorialeeblue
New member
Started seahorse tank and they do eat frozen mysis shrimp, however want to supplement diet. Ive so far only found frozen foods and bryne shrimp. Anyone also in canada maybe has any info....
finding live seahorse foods in canada
- Thread starter victorialeeblue
- Start date
Started seahorse tank and they do eat frozen mysis shrimp, however want to supplement diet. Ive so far only found frozen foods and bryne shrimp. Anyone also in canada maybe has any info....
You can grow your own adult brine shrimp which can be gut loaded with spirulina to provide an excellent food source for your horses, to compliment the frozen mysis that they already eat.
Growing on a low density scale is relatively easy, and as the density of brine in the grow container increases, the work increases also. That being said, low density growing will suffice for your horses.
You could get some ideas that help you by viewing my brine shrimp page.
RAISING BRINE SHRIMP TO ADULT
Growing on a low density scale is relatively easy, and as the density of brine in the grow container increases, the work increases also. That being said, low density growing will suffice for your horses.
You could get some ideas that help you by viewing my brine shrimp page.
RAISING BRINE SHRIMP TO ADULT
pledosophy
Active member
Live brine is a good snack, but has relatively little nutritional value on it's own. There is also some talk that brine is very hard for seahorses to digest.
If your seahorses are eating frozen then rejoice and be happy. Some of us spend about a grand a year to feed two seahorses live daily. I would not tempt your luck.
If your seahorses are eating frozen then rejoice and be happy. Some of us spend about a grand a year to feed two seahorses live daily. I would not tempt your luck.
If brine shrimp are hard for seahorses to digest, then someone never told mine.
Also, many of the long term people on the two seahorse forums, recommend feeding gut loaded brine shrimp, and I believe brine are used in some large seahorse raising ventures.
Brine shrimp take a knock for lacking nutrition but that is an old wives tale passed on for so long it's frustration seeing it posted time and time again.
Brine shrimp nauplii are rich in huffas, but lack decent levels of protein.
Brine shrimp adults, however, excell in protein content but have little of the huffas that the nauplii are known for.
For the most complete information I've been able to find on the internet or in a library, see the article on live foods for the aquaculture industry from the United Nations article edited by specialists at the Artemia Research Centre at the University of Gent.
There is a nutrition section also, showing various levels of nauplii, juveniles, and adults.
It also talks about increasing the nutrition levels with gut loading.
CLICK HERE AND SCROLL DOWN TO SECTION 4.0
By the way, brine shrimp are used extensively as a large part of the feeding programs of the marine mariculture industry because they can provide benefits that exceed the cheaper costs of feeding other foods.
Also, many of the long term people on the two seahorse forums, recommend feeding gut loaded brine shrimp, and I believe brine are used in some large seahorse raising ventures.
Brine shrimp take a knock for lacking nutrition but that is an old wives tale passed on for so long it's frustration seeing it posted time and time again.
Brine shrimp nauplii are rich in huffas, but lack decent levels of protein.
Brine shrimp adults, however, excell in protein content but have little of the huffas that the nauplii are known for.
For the most complete information I've been able to find on the internet or in a library, see the article on live foods for the aquaculture industry from the United Nations article edited by specialists at the Artemia Research Centre at the University of Gent.
There is a nutrition section also, showing various levels of nauplii, juveniles, and adults.
It also talks about increasing the nutrition levels with gut loading.
CLICK HERE AND SCROLL DOWN TO SECTION 4.0
By the way, brine shrimp are used extensively as a large part of the feeding programs of the marine mariculture industry because they can provide benefits that exceed the cheaper costs of feeding other foods.
reefD
New member
understandable but u speak of live animals that can be gut loaded. so if i can get live mysis i can gut load also. when u get frozen brine its less nutritional than frozen mysis. now live gutloaded brine is as advantagious as gut loaded mysis. but when both r recieved frozen......mysis is better by far. gut loading live food is a different topic as frozen food.
reefD
New member
u may be confusing the idea of nutrion with frozen brine. live brine is the same but as u say you gut load them (changes everything!)and then its good, i believe most of us are speaking of frozen mysis being worthless as i also agree frozen brine is no good. live anything can be gut loaded to reach desired levels. like live mysis. and when gut loaded its great. equal to live anything like brine but with no gut loading..........brine is bottom of the pole.
pledosophy
Active member
Hi RayJay. Thanks for the article. I haven't got to read all of it yet but read much of it. Excited to study the rotifer section in greater depth later as well. Thanks.
Check this article out
http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/SeahorseFoods.php
Brine shrimp and freshly hatched brine shrimp are used in both aquaculture facilities, mariculture facilities and by home breeder to feed seahorse fry. For many species of seahorse bbs is the first introductory food. The bbs being less then 4 hours old so it is small enough to fit into the small mouths of some species of fry, and it still holds the protein from it egg sac. Other species need rotifers.
Fry are moved on to enriched brine shrimp and then on to larger foods.
This is used for the practices of raising seahorse fry to adulthood. Once there juvies it's time for them to eat big kid food. Human fry can live off of breast milk alone, but you don't see many teenagers keeping that diet right?
Gut loaded brine is often recommended on different boards for feeding fry, feeding sick seahorse in order to give a medication or introduce a smaller food, or as a first food to a WC seahorse who cannot take live mysis due to snout snize.
I have not seen it recommended in some years as a daily food for adult seahorses. 5 years ago yes, but not anymore. If you want to enrich the brine so they have some nutritional value then it is a source of nutrition, but IME the people who have the best luck at keeping seahorses longterm feed larger crusteceans such as mysis, or even fresh water ghost shrimp. A few years ago the average lifespan of a seahorse in captivity was 1 to 2 years, we now have people that are 5 years plus regularly, IMO a better understanding of nutrition plays a role here, as well as a few other factors.
IMO there are other issues at play with feeding adult brine also, mainly introduction of disease, but that's a different debate really.
BTW I don't enrich my foods. I am stuck feeding live but have found that live unenriched ghost shrimp is a fine diet for a seahorse. There was a time period or two when I added beta glucan. I did try vibrance for a bit, but noticed no difference from the vibrance IME.
Check this article out
http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/SeahorseFoods.php
Brine shrimp and freshly hatched brine shrimp are used in both aquaculture facilities, mariculture facilities and by home breeder to feed seahorse fry. For many species of seahorse bbs is the first introductory food. The bbs being less then 4 hours old so it is small enough to fit into the small mouths of some species of fry, and it still holds the protein from it egg sac. Other species need rotifers.
Fry are moved on to enriched brine shrimp and then on to larger foods.
This is used for the practices of raising seahorse fry to adulthood. Once there juvies it's time for them to eat big kid food. Human fry can live off of breast milk alone, but you don't see many teenagers keeping that diet right?
Gut loaded brine is often recommended on different boards for feeding fry, feeding sick seahorse in order to give a medication or introduce a smaller food, or as a first food to a WC seahorse who cannot take live mysis due to snout snize.
I have not seen it recommended in some years as a daily food for adult seahorses. 5 years ago yes, but not anymore. If you want to enrich the brine so they have some nutritional value then it is a source of nutrition, but IME the people who have the best luck at keeping seahorses longterm feed larger crusteceans such as mysis, or even fresh water ghost shrimp. A few years ago the average lifespan of a seahorse in captivity was 1 to 2 years, we now have people that are 5 years plus regularly, IMO a better understanding of nutrition plays a role here, as well as a few other factors.
IMO there are other issues at play with feeding adult brine also, mainly introduction of disease, but that's a different debate really.
BTW I don't enrich my foods. I am stuck feeding live but have found that live unenriched ghost shrimp is a fine diet for a seahorse. There was a time period or two when I added beta glucan. I did try vibrance for a bit, but noticed no difference from the vibrance IME.
pledosophy, the information on that link was written mostly by people that have no real knowledge of brine shrimp nutrition. When you read the nutrition part of that United Nations paper, you will find that there is no problem nutrition wise, contrary to what is said in that org article.
I believe that rotifers should be the starting food, or at least rotifers in conjunction with nauplii, as there is statistical evidence that fry raised on nauplii alone do not fare nearly as well.
After that stage, I believe there should be no problem.
Like any marine fish, I don't believe there should be only one food and frozen mysis alternated with live adult gut loaded brine shrimp is my preference.
As for recommending live adults on a regular basis, I believe David Warland on both seahorse orgs routinely recommends feeding brine shrimp gut loaded with spirulina and/or vitamins and not just for sick horses. I seem to recall that he is not in favour of feeding the enriched mysis as he feels that the fat content is too high.
After I provided the link to the UN article, David posted it as a sticky on the syg.org feed forum.
It is my impression from what I've read on his threads that he and Tracy use live brine shrimp extensively in their seahorse raising operation and for their brood stock as well.
As for the fears of introducing disease, that is simple to remedy and I believe producers of live brine shrimp guarantee disease free brine.
Before I sell my brine shrimp, I bring the s.g. up to 1.077 at which no other thing can live but the brine shrimp, essentially sterilizing the culture. They are brought down again to 1.026 before actually delivering to the customer.
I believe that rotifers should be the starting food, or at least rotifers in conjunction with nauplii, as there is statistical evidence that fry raised on nauplii alone do not fare nearly as well.
After that stage, I believe there should be no problem.
Like any marine fish, I don't believe there should be only one food and frozen mysis alternated with live adult gut loaded brine shrimp is my preference.
As for recommending live adults on a regular basis, I believe David Warland on both seahorse orgs routinely recommends feeding brine shrimp gut loaded with spirulina and/or vitamins and not just for sick horses. I seem to recall that he is not in favour of feeding the enriched mysis as he feels that the fat content is too high.
After I provided the link to the UN article, David posted it as a sticky on the syg.org feed forum.
It is my impression from what I've read on his threads that he and Tracy use live brine shrimp extensively in their seahorse raising operation and for their brood stock as well.
As for the fears of introducing disease, that is simple to remedy and I believe producers of live brine shrimp guarantee disease free brine.
Before I sell my brine shrimp, I bring the s.g. up to 1.077 at which no other thing can live but the brine shrimp, essentially sterilizing the culture. They are brought down again to 1.026 before actually delivering to the customer.
pledosophy
Active member
Yup David likes the brine. I wouldn't discount the others on the org though, while they don't flaunt it there are several members with degrees in aquaculture, PHD's in Marine Biology, or PHD's in other science fields. There are also some very succsessful breeders there including Southern Australian, Draco Marine, Seahorse Source, etc.
Honestly David is the only more well known person I see promoting brine. Calfo, Giwonja, Gardner, Lamont, Gomezjurado, Zohar, Underwood, Paletta, Sprung, Mitchell, Burhans, Melechinsky, to name a few all seem to think that mysis is the best source of food.
I do believe that seahorses have a hard time digesting adult brine. Examining seahorse poop after eating brie you can see almost complete pieces of brine shrimp, this indicates diffuculty in digesting for me.
IME the same horse can live off the same food souce for at least 5.5 years. They don't really need a variety.
On the raising salinity level, does that take care of the bacterias as well as the parsites. I was not aware that the bacterias associated with brine that are prone to cause seahorse disease had a salinity threshold. Got a link? Love to read more. You seem to have all the great articles up your sleeve.
How long have you been raising brine? I tried raising mysis but failed miserably. I will have to try again one day. Maybe after the move in a couple months.
I guess we all have to find what works for us. Personally I don't feed mysis either, I feed live fresh water ghosts.
Honestly David is the only more well known person I see promoting brine. Calfo, Giwonja, Gardner, Lamont, Gomezjurado, Zohar, Underwood, Paletta, Sprung, Mitchell, Burhans, Melechinsky, to name a few all seem to think that mysis is the best source of food.
I do believe that seahorses have a hard time digesting adult brine. Examining seahorse poop after eating brie you can see almost complete pieces of brine shrimp, this indicates diffuculty in digesting for me.
IME the same horse can live off the same food souce for at least 5.5 years. They don't really need a variety.
On the raising salinity level, does that take care of the bacterias as well as the parsites. I was not aware that the bacterias associated with brine that are prone to cause seahorse disease had a salinity threshold. Got a link? Love to read more. You seem to have all the great articles up your sleeve.
How long have you been raising brine? I tried raising mysis but failed miserably. I will have to try again one day. Maybe after the move in a couple months.
I guess we all have to find what works for us. Personally I don't feed mysis either, I feed live fresh water ghosts.
First off, feeding fresh water ghosts would bankrupt me as they cost 50 cents each to buy locally. With 550 other marine gallons of tanks, I have too much expense for my income, so raising brine shrimp became a passion for me a long time ago, maybe 8 to 10 years ago.
As for the bacteria, I don't know if hypersaline solutions eliminate bacteria, but I believe the fresh water baths I give them between every water change eliminate the bacteria that will survive in salt water. Starting with decapped cyst would probably be the easiest starting point as bacteria can't live through that treatment. (I don't decap mine)
I also recommend to my customers that they at least fresh water dip the brine before feeding them to their intended targets.
The names you list are indeed very knowledgeable people, but, when it comes to artemia, unless they study them in depth, which none of them have to the best of my knowledge, they usually end up passing on information that has become "myth-lore". (A few of those people I have had some written communication with about brine over the years and they said they were quoting other sources in some of their comments on artemia, and had no factual learning and assumed the sources were knowledgeable because of their name and qualifications)
As for growing mysids, I do it on a small scale at the moment because it's a lot of manual labour capturing the newborn to separate them and keep the older ones from eating the younger ones.
When I get time, I'll build the mysid generator and increase my production. The generator appears to be quite simple and it works for large commercial operators so I should be able to make it work for me.
Can't remember if I previously linked this on the present thread but it won't hurt to link it again.
MYSID GENERATOR
As for the bacteria, I don't know if hypersaline solutions eliminate bacteria, but I believe the fresh water baths I give them between every water change eliminate the bacteria that will survive in salt water. Starting with decapped cyst would probably be the easiest starting point as bacteria can't live through that treatment. (I don't decap mine)
I also recommend to my customers that they at least fresh water dip the brine before feeding them to their intended targets.
The names you list are indeed very knowledgeable people, but, when it comes to artemia, unless they study them in depth, which none of them have to the best of my knowledge, they usually end up passing on information that has become "myth-lore". (A few of those people I have had some written communication with about brine over the years and they said they were quoting other sources in some of their comments on artemia, and had no factual learning and assumed the sources were knowledgeable because of their name and qualifications)
As for growing mysids, I do it on a small scale at the moment because it's a lot of manual labour capturing the newborn to separate them and keep the older ones from eating the younger ones.
When I get time, I'll build the mysid generator and increase my production. The generator appears to be quite simple and it works for large commercial operators so I should be able to make it work for me.
Can't remember if I previously linked this on the present thread but it won't hurt to link it again.
MYSID GENERATOR
pledosophy
Active member
I buy the ghosts in bulk so thee like 8 for a buck, but that is all sizes.
Many of the people listed have done independent research on nutrition including the use of brine, Gardner even spoke on it at IMAC.
Thanks for the link to the Mysis generator. Mine wasn't that complex. I used a pool filter basket covered by a mesh so that the babies could get out but the adults had to stay in. That part worked great, the topping off with saltwater as opposed to fresh water by accident is what I think did them in. After I move I'm sure I'll setup some more cultures.
Many of the people listed have done independent research on nutrition including the use of brine, Gardner even spoke on it at IMAC.
Thanks for the link to the Mysis generator. Mine wasn't that complex. I used a pool filter basket covered by a mesh so that the babies could get out but the adults had to stay in. That part worked great, the topping off with saltwater as opposed to fresh water by accident is what I think did them in. After I move I'm sure I'll setup some more cultures.
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