First Qurantine tank

[ozorowsky]

Hi all,

I got my first quarantine tank up and running. Just got over a bout of ich, got all my fish moved from DT to QT and are fine.

My QT is a 40 gallon; today I am going to add some clown fish from the LFS to QT and quarantine for next 6 weeks before moving back to Display Tank.

During this time should I treat these fish with copper/hypo salinity to kill off ANY ich that may be attached to these fish as a preventive measure? Or should I wait until or if I see signs?

My main tank has corals/starfish/inverts ONLY right now. I plan on leaving it like that until I am SURE there is no ich on my fish; I don't want to get another bout of ich introduced into my tank.

Thank you.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Good move with using a QT.I'm not clear, are there fish in your QT now? How and where was the ich treated? There are lots of opinions on treating fish in QT; I treat all fish in QT with copper and Prazi-Pro; many hobbyists do the same and many don't. There is a lot of things, besides ich, that you can catch in QT. Velvet & Brooklyella are just two.

 

[ozorowsky]

Good move with using a QT.I'm not clear, are there fish in your QT now?

Yes; the fish in there now are from my main tank.

How and where was the ich treated?

It hasn't been "treated" I tried Kick Ich; all my tangs/clown fish/some green chromis died off. I gave up on kick ich; setup quarantine tank moved all fish there they seem to be doing good now.

Going to keep my Display tank fishless for the next 8 weeks so all ich in the tank will die off (from my understanding)

This is why I'm wondering if I should treat something that doesn't show signs in the quarantine or what I should do?

There are lots of opinions on treating fish in QT; I treat all fish in QT with copper and Prazi-Pro; many hobbyists do the same and many don't. There is a lot of things, besides ich, that you can catch in QT. Velvet & Brooklyella are just two.

Should I pick up some cupramine and prazi-pro? I don't want to EVER introduce anything into my display tnak again; I use to just drip acclimate fish put them in. They all did fine until recent.

 

[ozorowsky]

Do you all think hypo salinity and/or cupramine is a good preventive maintenance?

Which do you prefer?

I want to treat my fish properly to get them back in my display tank and enjoy what I've been kicking my butt and wallet for for past few months.

Thank you all

 

[sandwi54]

Since you got all your fish in QT now, treat with prazipro and cupramine, even if you do NOT see symptoms. You know there's ich already, so definitely apply cupramine.

Don't buy new fish before the old fish get treated and go back into the DT. buying new fish means the possibility of bringing in another disease to infest the old fish, and also the increased bio-load.

patience is required to be successful in this hobby.

 

[ozorowsky]

Since you got all your fish in QT now, treat with prazipro and cupramine, even if you do NOT see symptoms. You know there's ich already, so definitely apply cupramine.

Don't buy new fish before the old fish get treated and go back into the DT. buying new fish means the possibility of bringing in another disease to infest the old fish, and also the increased bio-load.

patience is required to be successful in this hobby.

Should I stick specifically to cupramine brand? My LFS has copper sulfate based meds but stated they do not have cupramine brand.

 

[MrTuskfish]

You sure aren't the first person to discover "kick Ich" doesn't kick anything.
I really prefer Cupramine for lots of reasons. its safer, more effective, and easier----IMO & IME. Here's their web page, the usual fluff, of course, but I think all their facts are correct and the FAQ section is great. Their phone tech support is great too, use them if you need to.http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html
Like sandwi54 said above; wait with the new fish. You'd have to start the QT from day one if you added more fish and your fish almost certainly have some ich. it likes to hide in the gills and when it returns, its much more of a problem. If you need to order it, Drs F&S will get to you within a week (probably) and they have cheap shipping ( free if you spend $50). Stock up on salt or something. It will be a while before you're back to a stocked tank; but QT everything from now on and you'll eliminate most real problems before they happen. A QT is also a great place to get a fish acclimated and learn his little quirks without all the commotion and competition of the DT.
IMO, you're asking good questions and doing exactly the right thing. Of course, all we can offer is experience & opinion; but this forum has plenty of both. Good luck, I think you'll do very well in this hobby/addiction and will be soon getting a re-fi on your house to upgrade tanks. Oh yeah; you might want to ask the reef fish section about Chromis if you plan on adding anymore. That's my long-winded rant for the day; I had a class for several hours and had to keep quiet, not easy for me at age 63.

 

[ozorowsky]

You sure aren't the first person to discover "kick Ich" doesn't kick anything.
I really prefer Cupramine for lots of reasons. its safer, more effective, and easier----IMO & IME. Here's their web page, the usual fluff, of course, but I think all their facts are correct and the FAQ section is great. Their phone tech support is great too, use them if you need to.http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html
Like sandwi54 said above; wait with the new fish. You'd have to start the QT from day one if you added more fish and your fish almost certainly have some ich. it likes to hide in the gills and when it returns, its much more of a problem. If you need to order it, Drs F&S will get to you within a week (probably) and they have cheap shipping ( free if you spend $50). Stock up on salt or something. It will be a while before you're back to a stocked tank; but QT everything from now on and you'll eliminate most real problems before they happen. A QT is also a great place to get a fish acclimated and learn his little quirks without all the commotion and competition of the DT.
IMO, you're asking good questions and doing exactly the right thing. Of course, all we can offer is experience & opinion; but this forum has plenty of both. Good luck, I think you'll do very well in this hobby/addiction and will be soon getting a re-fi on your house to upgrade tanks. Oh yeah; you might want to ask the reef fish section about Chromis if you plan on adding anymore. That's my long-winded rant for the day; I had a class for several hours and had to keep quiet, not easy for me at age 63.

Thank you!

I am getting through this ich phase, then I will be quarantining every single thing before it enters my Display tank in the future!

That said, I am going over to the reef fish section now to start building my wish list.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Here's a copy of how I instantly cycle a QT/HT, I thought you could use it. Completely avoids ammonia problems and instantly cycles the QT/HT anytime you need it.
"In regards to Qt cycling; I've done this for years. Get a HOB filter; I really like Aqua-Clear, they have a big sponge and last forever. Don't use the carbon or ceramic noodles that come with the filter. Also, have some extra sponges on hand, they're cheap. Keep a sponge in the flow somewhere in your DT. When you need a QT or HT, just use the sponge that has been in your main system in your QT filter---the QT will be instantly cycled. When done, toss the sponge and keep a new one ready in your main system.
BTW, Cupramine copper, used in a QT,will not destroy a bio-filter. QT is enough of a PITA; you shouldn't have to battle ammonia too."

 

[jeff@zina.com]

During this time should I treat these fish with copper/hypo salinity to kill off ANY ich that may be attached to these fish as a preventive measure? Or should I wait until or if I see signs?

I don't treat unless I see an issue. Hypo/Hyper salinity is pretty safe for most fish, and doesn't have any lasting effects, so I'd consider it a safe precaution if you wanted to do it as a prophylactic treatment. I would not consider copper as a prophylactic but I also never use it to treat ich.

If your tank had ich, all fish have to be out of it for at least eight weeks to be done with it in the tank. And I would treat for ich if you knew they were exposed in your tank.

By the way, using a furan product for fin rot/damage is something I will do, or a tetracycline, Marycyn, triple sulfa dose, but only if warranted by my observations. For ich, I prefer Metro or Formalin. But I have a friend who swears by treating everything with Paragard as a prophylactic. If it works, and it does for him, I say stick with it. Even if I don't.

By the way, Cupramine, or a copper sulfate treatment, works with ich. I just don't like copper because I may decide to reuse a tank for inverts. The same friend with the Paragard addiction uses a 30 gallon tank for copper that he painted red so he never mixes it up.

Jeff

 

[sandwi54]

Here's a copy of how I instantly cycle a QT/HT, I thought you could use it. Completely avoids ammonia problems and instantly cycles the QT/HT anytime you need it.
"In regards to Qt cycling; I've done this for years. Get a HOB filter; I really like Aqua-Clear, they have a big sponge and last forever. Don't use the carbon or ceramic noodles that come with the filter. Also, have some extra sponges on hand, they're cheap. Keep a sponge in the flow somewhere in your DT. When you need a QT or HT, just use the sponge that has been in your main system in your QT filter---the QT will be instantly cycled. When done, toss the sponge and keep a new one ready in your main system.
BTW, Cupramine copper, used in a QT,will not destroy a bio-filter. QT is enough of a PITA; you shouldn't have to battle ammonia too."

MrTusk I love hearing your "speech" everytime on instantly cycling a QT haha!

Most LFS should carry cupramine. don't get copper sulfate as cupramine is a much better copper to use. It's relatively safe at the therapeutic range for ich. If you really can't find it locally, then buy it online as MrTusk suggested. All you need is a small bottle. I'm still using the same small bottle after quarantining almost 100 fish!

 

[ozorowsky]

MrTusk I love hearing your "speech" everytime on instantly cycling a QT haha!

Most LFS should carry cupramine. don't get copper sulfate as cupramine is a much better copper to use. It's relatively safe at the therapeutic range for ich. If you really can't find it locally, then buy it online as MrTusk suggested. All you need is a small bottle. I'm still using the same small bottle after quarantining almost 100 fish!

Thank you. I bought some coppersafe from my LFS yesterday. I will also order some cupramine for future.

I am dosing the coppersafe in small capfuls until I get to 1.5ppm correct?

Then just keep up with water changes, keep coppersafe at 1.5ppm, and after 6 weeks, do a 5 gallon water change (40 gal QT tank) every few days until the copper reduces to almost nothing and then drip acclimate to display tank right?

 

[MrTuskfish]

By the way, Cupramine, or a copper sulfate treatment, works with ich. I just don't like copper because I may decide to reuse a tank for inverts. The same friend with the Paragard addiction uses a 30 gallon tank for copper that he painted red so he never mixes it up.

Jeff

I know that copper being absorbed by silicone, then released has always been a concern. But, IMO & IME, it shouldn't be. I assumed this was true for years. Everything I've read says silicone can't absorb (or combine) with much of anything; despite a lot of anecdotal comments to the contrary. My 55 QT has been dosed with enough copper to kill the Shedd Aquarium. After using Cuprisorb, a Poly-Filter, or carbon, copper is undetectable-- and I've used the same QT for coral and other inverts for years with no problem. Many commercial systems run copper 24/7/365 and copper levels would be through the roof, and lethal to fish, if silicone absorption was a problem. I know some stuff, like meth blue, will stain silicone; but if you slice the silicone, it hasn't been absorbed. I know Cupramine is a SeaChem product and the normal promotional fluff is included, but this is what they say about silicone and copper,; BTW, I think their tech people are outstanding and quite honest. ( almost the last Q on this Q&A). I really think this is a myth that should finally die. http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html

Just out stubbornness Or boredom), I spent about a half-hour tracking down a tech-support guy from GE ( maybe the biggest mfg of silicone sealant).several years ago. He gave me essentially the same answer.

 

[MrTuskfish]

MrTusk I love hearing your "speech" everytime on instantly cycling a QT haha!

You're right; it is a copy&paste speech". Just setting up a QT and fighting a parasite battle is bad enough; having to battle ammonia at the same time must be a royal PITA.

 

[ozorowsky]

You're right; it is a copy&paste speech". Just setting up a QT and fighting a parasite battle is bad enough; having to battle ammonia at the same time must be a royal PITA.

I am using a submersible filter I use to use on my freshwater tank. What I was thinking of doing is pulling the sponge thing from it sit it in my refugium for a few days, then put in there.

Would that kick start the cycle to help ammonia control?

My QT is a 40 gallon tall tank. Is it ok to put one tiny live rock in there?

In between quarantines I plan on emptying the QT and letting it run dry for at least a week. Would that kill off anything that may be leftover in there?

And after the sponge is introduced into copper I can NEVER put that back into my Main tank right? Even if I wash it out real good in the sink or something?

Thanks guys

 

[sandwi54]

You're right; it is a copy&paste speech". Just setting up a QT and fighting a parasite battle is bad enough; having to battle ammonia at the same time must be a royal PITA.

that's exactly what i went through when i quarantined my very first fish, actually, 5 of them, without realizing that ammonia/nitrite could be such a big issue. i ended up losing 3 of them due to stress from both ammonia/nitrite and copper medication.

i would never apply med in an un-cycled QT again, unless it's an emergency.

 

[sandwi54]

I am using a submersible filter I use to use on my freshwater tank. What I was thinking of doing is pulling the sponge thing from it sit it in my refugium for a few days, then put in there.

Would that kick start the cycle to help ammonia control?
it would, but a few days are not going to be enough. i would say do it for 3-4 weeks to get enough bacteria so that you won't have major water quality issue. though you may still have a minor one.

My QT is a 40 gallon tall tank. Is it ok to put one tiny live rock in there?
no, since you're going to use copper.

In between quarantines I plan on emptying the QT and letting it run dry for at least a week. Would that kill off anything that may be leftover in there?
Yes

And after the sponge is introduced into copper I can NEVER put that back into my Main tank right? Even if I wash it out real good in the sink or something?
That is correct. Toss the sponge out after you finish quarantining all of the fish you want to purchase. then buy a new one and toss it into the sump to seed with bacteria for future use.

Thanks guys

 

[ozorowsky]

Does the live rock absorb the copper or why don't I want one live rock in there?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Does the live rock absorb the copper or why don't I want one live rock in there?

That's one reason, LR or substrate can make accurate copper dosing & testing impossible. There is no reason to put just one small LR in a QT, its not enough to do anything with bio-filtration anyway. If you want stuff for fish shelter, use pieces of PVC.
Never put ANYTHING from a QT into your DT; except the livestock at the appropriate time. replacement sponges are co cheap, why worry? Avoid any of the HOB filter pads with carbon; the carbon removes copper and those pads don't have enough surface area to colonize bacteria. Aqua-Clear, or even air-driven sponge filters work well. Keep an extra sponge in your DT at all times and you're ready for an emergency or new fish anytime.