First signs of ich?

L

Lucky Lefty

New member
Hello all,

Brief description of where I'm at.

Tank was finished with cycle a few weeks ago.. After cycle, LFS gave me 2 free blue velvet damsels to start my tank up and make sure everything is where it needs to be upon introducing a substantial bio load.

Parameters remained perfect throughout 2 weeks, even after adding some more LR to my tank.

About a week and a half ago, we bought the fish we really wanted, a porky puffer, from another LFS that we frequent. Watched the puffer for about a week prior to purchase, witnessed multiple feedings and great behavior as far as not being too shy or stressed.

The puffer has been awesome. On day 2 though I had to remove the adult damsel, as he was attacking the puffer constantly, trying to ram the spines of his top fin into the puffer. Took him out and left the juvenile, who seems to know her place with the puffer.

Anyhow, today, while up close and personal with Puff Master Flex, I noticed a tiny white spot on one if his fins :( and took some up close photos to show you guys.

I actually have not done a water change yet, but have a 55 gallon drum filling with RODI right now as I type that I will be mixing into saltwater as soon as it hits about 30 or 40 gallons.

Noticed this morning there was a lot of water tension, as many bubbles were trapped at the water surface. I think that may be related to some over feeding this first week trying to get Puffy acclimated and comfy. Also waiting on my protein skimmer to arrive in the mail, as I accidentally cut the power cord to my other one when reassembling the water pump, so I haven't been running a skimmer. New one should be here very very soon.


And my last confession, I did not quarantine the puffer or damsel prior to putting them in the display tank. Huge NO NO i know.. But I rolled the dice because they are my first fish in the tank. :headwally: but no need to :deadhorse:

I don't have the equipment for a QT just yet, and have been actively looking to try and set one up.

So what do you think? Is this definitely Ich? Anyway to definitely tell aside from waiting for more spots? Anything I should do now? If that anything is start a QT/HT, but can't right now, is there something else I should do within the DT?

The water does have a good amount of particles floating through it, not a crazy amount, but could this just be debris stuck to him?

Thanks for the "brief" reading. Look forward to feedback.
 

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I can't help you with the ICH ID but I can tell you that you might as well remove the other damsel while you are at it. That one is only timid atm because there was a more aggresive one in the tank. Now that he is removed the remaining one will become bold and be your new bully, they are beautiful fish but being a bully is in their nature. With a timid fish like a puffer it is only a matter of time.
 
Whistl3r said:
I can't help you with the ICH ID but I can tell you that you might as well remove the other damsel while you are at it. That one is only timid atm because there was a more aggresive one in the tank. Now that he is removed the remaining one will become bold and be your new bully, they are beautiful fish but being a bully is in their nature. With a timid fish like a puffer it is only a matter of time.
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I almost got the little damsel out but he's very quick and he hides inside a cave in a huge piece of LR, but I didn't want to keep stressing the newly added puffer and the damsel was keen to my ways so I backed off for a bit and now just letting him get comfortable again instead of hiding every time he sees me so I can corner him.

The little damsel was trying to be pushy with the puffer the first few days, he was more so pushing his tail fin at the puffer when he would buzz by the cave rock, but now the damsel won't cross the puffer. The other day, I saw Puff give the damsel a little lunge when he tried pecking at him, puffer looked like he had angry eyebrows for a second. Since then, damsel keeps his distance from what I've seen.

The plan is to remove him though.
 
i can't really help with the diagnosis either but i can tell you a qt is super easy and you only need the basics. a tank, airstone, heater, some pvc elbows for fish to use as hidey holes. IF mr. puffy ends up with ich, you have contaminated your dt and it will be necessary to get him out and get him treated.

good luck, hope you won't have to be dealing with ich!
 
Thank you! I just need a tank and a filter and i have my QT. From my understanding i need some kind of small hob filter for the qt to hold a sponge filter from my DT.
 
you can but it isn't necessary. i use a 10g tank for qt. as long as you monitor ammonia, you should be good to go. i have an ammonia badge i use and i have found that quick 2-3g water changes every day is the key. this has been my limited experience. i've only been using a qt for a couple of months but so far, this method is working fine.

i suppose if you are planning on a sizable qt tank with multiple fish being housed at a time, you may want to use some sort of biological filtration.
 
Nina, i want to have a temp qt setup. Maybe im just not understanding all that im reading up. The way am imagining the process is to take a small tank, fill water, add heater and hiding pipes, as well as some form of bacteria covered product from my DT. Now i think i cant just plop a sponge filter in the water, so i was thinking i needed some sort of filter contraption to flow the water through the tank and filter. Is this how its done, or can i just drop the sponge in the watern
 
more important than the bacteria is just pristine water and some sort of oxygenation like an air stone.

my qt consists of a 10g tank, heater, pvc elbow, ammonia badge, thermometer, air stone. now, if you were going to set up a qt tank that you intend to keep running all the time then yes, some biological filtration would be appropriate.

i am doing tank transfer with a kole tang and in fact, just finished plopping him into the tank for the last transfer. this tank has no biological filtration whatsoever. he will be in it for 4 weeks and assuming he shows no signs of disease, he will go into my dt after that 4 weeks is up.

water changes in a temporary qt are your friend. :)
 
Does anyone know how to spot the beginning stages of ich? So many people on here and im stunned that no one has any input to if this could be ich, or what i should be doing aside from observing.

Thanks to those that have posted.
 
Lucky Lefty said:
Does anyone know how to spot the beginning stages of ich? So many people on here and im stunned that no one has any input to if this could be ich, or what i should be doing aside from observing.

Thanks to those that have posted.
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I suggest reading the ich stickies in the top of the Fish Disease Forum. This will provide a wealth of information.
 
Edit: I'll just observe and see what happens for now I guess. Hopefully it's something much less and not Ich or another parasite.

Thanks
 
Lucky Lefty said:
I have been reading them constantly. Haven't seen anything that highlighted the very early stages and first sightings of Ich, or misdiagnosis. Maybe I missed it.
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The only obvious symptom is the "exit wounds" i.e. stuff that looks like salt sprinkles on (actually under) the skin. However, a fish can still have ich and you'll never see this if the parasite is unable to penetrate the mucous layer. So, ich's "Plan B" is the gills - unfortunately, out of sight for us. But you should still notice more subtle symptoms such as head twitching, rubbing, targeting the gill area, etc. However, this can also mean something like gill flukes is afflicting the fish.
 
I am by no means a pro at this yet but I will tell you that my little guy has a similar spot and it definitely is not ich. I have come across ich twice and its not quite the same type of spot.. and imo there would be more than just one spot. More like "sugar". Behavior would be the first sign as far as constant rubbing or scratching and then the "sugar" would appear. Kind of like kids when they get lice. I attempted a picture but he seems to think thats not his best side and insists on pictures being taken from another angle lol. Hope everything turns out great! They are hours of entertainment and fun!

P.S.. I don't have a QT tank either... I know, such a rule breaker!
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You know, believe it or not, a lot of people have the parasite present in their tanks even if it doesn't rear its ugly head. I think its brought on mostly by stress from habitat and poor diet. Definitely incorporate the garlic. It works wonders in my opinion. I love the Garlic Extreme. Its probably in my tank because I've seen my hippo and tang with an occasional white spot. Although they've been in show quality condition for over a year now. I think its large part to the food, but also I incorporate garlic which i think is key. Keep an eye on those rascals and if you remove the stressors from the tank hopefully it will disappear. Good luck!
 
carlos danger said:
You know, believe it or not, a lot of people have the parasite present in their tanks even if it doesn't rear its ugly head. I think its brought on mostly by stress from habitat and poor diet. Definitely incorporate the garlic. It works wonders in my opinion. I love the Garlic Extreme. Its probably in my tank because I've seen my hippo and tang with an occasional white spot. Although they've been in show quality condition for over a year now. I think its large part to the food, but also I incorporate garlic which i think is key. Keep an eye on those rascals and if you remove the stressors from the tank hopefully it will disappear. Good luck!
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That is not correct. Many people who have been doing this a long time, do not have ich in their tank, and it is not brought on at all by stress or poor diet. Garlic has no value in being a curative for ich, and in the long run is bad for fish.
 
+1 in regards to the garlic. However I do believe there could be many reefers out there with ich in there tanks that do not know it. I qt all fish for 4-6 weeks, but I only treat for ich when I see it or see the behavior.
Ich can be present with out either IMO. But a long and observant QT process will help eliminate the chance.
I believe based on experience that the only way to have an ich free 100% tank is to treat every fish for it whether you feel they are infected or not.
I have not practiced this because I wont treat for something if I am not sure it exists. But many people do.
In my experience so far (knock on wood) ich has always shown its ugly face with in 3 weeks of being in qt. My hippo tang was showing no signs in qt for 3 weeks and then one day, bam! There it was. QT is the best way to prevent it.
Every time I move a fish from qt to the display, I get very nervous and stay that way for about 3 weeks after.
 
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