first SW tank?

B

blugar44

New member
Hey everybody,
I've been maintaining FW tanks for as long as I can remember, but that must seem like child's play to you guys so I'm stepping up and finally grabbing my first SW tank (well, at least I'll be grabbing it by the end of this year aka. when I've saved up enough $$$). I always just thought it was logistically impossible but now that I work at an LFS with a discount and contacts, RO on tap etc, I'm really looking forward to it!

Anyway, I'm currently looking at buying the AquaReef 400 which is obviously for absolute newbies. It's cheap and it's already got the sump connected so I think it's a good learning curve. It also gives me the option to swap out the skimmer, lights, and alter the sump (I want to add a refugium) so as I gain experience and knowledge, I still have a bit of freedom.

In this 105 gallon space, so far I've just got a vague list of fish I'd like to keep, not necessarily that I can keep.
- pair of obligatory ocellaris clowns
-a goby/blenny? Thinking lawnmower blenny or a watchman goby/pistol shrimp pair.
-A school of chromis? What's the recommended school size?
-Maybe 3 or so pajama/bangaii cardinals? Either or, obviously, not both.
-Royal gramma basslet or some firefish?
-Perhaps a flame angel added last.
----This is where it goes into probably unrealistic choices. -----
-A yellow tang? I've heard that they just won't be happy in a 4 ft tank, so if it's not a sustainable, healthy choice, I'm not getting it.
-A mandarin dragonet? This will be in the years after the tank is running smoothly with a refugium.

Also, I'm hoping to set this up as a reef tank once everything seems to be sailing okay, with mainly LPS, some button polyps, and my dream sun coral. I don't know if SPS are a good choice for me- some of those fish may nip at them and I don't know if I'll be able to manage their high requirements.

Any other options? Any compatibility issues or warnings? Any helpful advice?
Thanks! Sorry if I sound like an complete newbie.
 
I don't know about you, but for a beginner you shouldn't really be buying a tank that involves sumps and Refugiums. By yourself a smaller and cheaper tank and start of easy. An all in one kit is a great choice, ie (Red Sea Max 130).

Don't bother with angels as you are a newbie, clownfishs chromis and gobies all fine as well as royal gramma and fire fish. Don't even try the mandarin until you are more experienced as they are very fussy eaters.
 
Dont listen to this^^ Sorry Nicks Marine

You should buy the largest tank you can afford after considering the budget for all the equipment that is needed Lights, skimmer, RO/DI unit and how much your water bill is going to go up making your own water, salt mix, food, various medias like GFO and carbon. Once you figure out your budget you will have an understanding of what size tank you can afford. The smaller the tank the cheaper this hobby is but at the same time the dificulty is magnified with a smaller tank because fluctuations in parameters swing wildly in a smaller tank and you really have to be on your game to keep a small tank stable. When things go bad in a small tank they go bad quickly.

With a larger tank the budget definitely goes up this includes needing more lighting changing larger volumes of water which uses up more salt mix. However a larger tank is more stable and when you detect problems its easier to recover in a larger tank.

Good Luck and welcome to reef central.
 
whosurcaddie said:
Dont listen to this^^ Sorry Nicks Marine

You should buy the largest tank you can afford after considering the budget for all the equipment that is needed Lights, skimmer, RO/DI unit and how much your water bill is going to go up making your own water, salt mix, food, various medias like GFO and carbon. Once you figure out your budget you will have an understanding of what size tank you can afford. The smaller the tank the cheaper this hobby is but at the same time the dificulty is magnified with a smaller tank because fluctuations in parameters swing wildly in a smaller tank and you really have to be on your game to keep a small tank stable. When things go bad in a small tank they go bad quickly.

With a larger tank the budget definitely goes up this includes needing more lighting changing larger volumes of water which uses up more salt mix. However a larger tank is more stable and when you detect problems its easier to recover in a larger tank.

Good Luck and welcome to reef central.
Click to expand...

I Agree with everything whosurcaddie said.

My advice is, I love to DIY. So just look for the largest tank you can afford. Either if its Reef ready or not and go from there. There tons of advice out there to help you build what you want. Doing this way will be a little cheaper and a lot more fun. You will get to learn more about your tank and in the end you wont hate pre-made thing you have purchased. Also you will have a more efficient overflow system if you go beananimal.

If you know what size tank you will be starting and wont be starting for at least 2-3 months. Go buy your dry rock now, buy a heater, your salt, a tote, pellet food, and a power head. This way you can start getting your dry rock turn to Live Rock. Then when it comes time to start your tank, you will have a faster cycle.
 
Thanks. As a younger kid, I helped out my dad with his 30 gallon (just a pair of clowns and a hammer), but I remember how quickly the salinity would rise just due to evaporation in such a small tank and all in all, it was hard going trying to keep the parameters in order.

I work two jobs, and am under 18 so I have no bills to pay! I have a fair monthly budget and have already done some calculations. Salt mix will cost me a bit, as well as food and supplements like calcium. So far that looks to be the main regular expenses. I pay my own share of the power and water bills (with a few tanks already, it racks up quickly so I can't expect my mother to pay it haha ).. It's mainly the upfront cost for the tank that is going to be time-consuming and will take a few months to save up, as well as the dry rock, my rodi system and then the other bits and bobs.

I'd love to go DIY though! My boss at the LFS is a great help and I could ask him for one of his custom made tanks that would tailor to the dimensions I need, and would be reef-ready. I'm not sure if it'd be cheaper, but honestly I want to start off with a good quality skimmer and lighting in the first place because I think the AquaReef comes with pretty average equipment.

Also felt I should clear up my stocking plan! I didn't mean to do the typical action of sticking them in there quickly! Honestly, I was just wondering if eventually they'd be somewhat compatible as I don't have first hand experience on which fish are more aggressive past the basics of no scopas tangs together, damselfish, conspecifics etc.
I was just going to first add beginner fish like chromis or clowns, wait many many months, add cardinals? Then I'd leave it at that. When I've got the knowledge and experience, I'm talking a year or so, i might start looking at a dwarf angel. I know all about the perils of mandarins- they're out of my mind and will be for a long time, don't worry. I don't want to throw myself in the fire, and my main joy in keeping freshwater is having healthy, long living fish so I want the same for my future marine. At the moment I'm just calculating my budget and researching.
Thanks everyone!
 
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as far as fish questions, just ask steve .You will see his post on here. While many of us know our stuff, there are not many that know it like him

But he will only advise you of weather the fish will live in the tank size and with what you got.

as far as big tank verse small tank, there are advantage and draw back with each

small tanks are cheaper all around.
easier to do water changes fast and cheaper water changes . lighting, filters, heater, skimmer, dosing all cheaper.

smaller tanks will limit what you can put in it and be more likely to fluctuate with respect to water conditions faster. have to be on top of things

big tank - bigger cost , larger, and long maintenance. i used to have a 265 gallon tank. it took me hours to change the water, i tend to wait as long as possible because it was such a pain
bigger tank more of a selection of fish and coral to choose from less likely to fluctuate in water conditions.
now you have some info choice is yours
 
Just remember the bigger they are the easier they are to keep parameters stable however they are that much harder to correct once stuff goes wrong. A large tank can fool a newbie into thinking they are doing great, then the 1 year mark hits and the tank becomes a nightmare.

QT what you put in it and go slow. It takes the best of us years to get our tanks how we want them. You will not, no matter how hard you try, get it right on the first go. You can try, it's your money, but I would try and go with something more basic to get your feet wet.

My advice would be not to go overboard and get a large tank until you have a permanent place to put it.
 
Thanks, I appreciate your responses and don't take me for someone who is only looking for the answers they want to hear! I'll seriously consider them.
For now, I'll just do all the learning I can from the people who know their stuff much better than I do. The only first hand experience I have would be that 30 gallon all those years ago as the kid who would look forward to holding the water change bucket every week lol, and the maintenance I do at work on the marine tanks.
 
blugar44 said:
and the maintenance I do at work on the marine tanks.
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I can tell you from personal experience that you will learn a ton that will help you out in the future with that job. Treat those tanks as your own and they become yours without the bills. Sometimes it was very hard for me to come home after a full day of armpit deep work to have to spend the next couple hours armpit deep at home. There is an old saying "a good plumber has leaky pipes" and I think it holds true to most things.
 
Exactly, and I think that this dream of actually owning one of these marine tanks for myself (whichever size, however simple, is yet to be decided upon but I've got my whole life) was only even made possible or concievable through the experience I've gained through my employment.
The boss started hiring youth like me because he wanted to foster the passion even though I'm yet to venture in to saltwater, but I don't think he knows how much it has been appreciated!
 
blugar44 said:
Exactly, and I think that this dream of actually owning one of these marine tanks for myself (whichever size, however simple, is yet to be decided upon but I've got my whole life) was only even made possible or concievable through the experience I've gained through my employment.
The boss started hiring youth like me because he wanted to foster the passion even though I'm yet to venture in to saltwater, but I don't think he knows how much it has been appreciated!
Click to expand...


Welcome! Seriously. Nice to see new people with passion.
Please take this not as an insult, but a warning: if the cost of salt mix would stress your budget, you may not be able to afford the hobby yet. Assuming you can get all your fish and coral for free, you'll still need a LOT of disposable income to get a 100 gallon tank running. Even DIY lights cost way more than the tank itself, and it's impractical to think you can build your own skimmer, for example. Working at a store, you may be able to use their test kits, that's a plus.
I'm going to put out an idea that most people here will disagree with, but I'll say it anyway... Lol. Get a SMALL tank first. Like 10-20 gallons. Shocking? Maybe. The biggest argue,net against this is that they are less stable. My answer? So what? In any tank you want an auto top off anyway, right? Of my 3 tanks, only one has an ATO right now, and I just add RODI daily to my QT and desktop nano. (New ATO is on order from Avast, but I've run it for the last 4 months this way). You need a heater and a powerhead for circulation, right? For a small tank, an RW-4 is like $50. Next time you get to work, price out the cost of enough for a 100 gallon tank. Likewise, price out the lighting for a 4 foot tank instead of a small tank. Simply shocking in cost.
I ran a really happy and successful nano for a few years and learned a ton. But here's the trick: weekly water changes. Like 20% every week and never miss, like EVER! In my first 10 gallon, 2 gallons each week was trivial in cost and effort. No sump, no skimmer, no crazy return plumbing, no controller. Just a cheap hang on back filter (maybe throw some Marine Pure balls in it) and a heater and you're done.
If I misunderstood you, and you have $3000-5000 to get started, then go for the 100. I would hate to see you get started and then stall out, and be disappointed. You have decades to upgrade to the tank of your dreams, so go to work and make a list of everything you need, and put a dollar next to it. Shop Craigslist for people that are getting out of the hobby. Maybe you start small and collect equipment in the garage until you're ready to setup something bigger.
Below is my picture of my first tank. Small doesn't mean it can't be wonderful.
View attachment 313954
 
Wow! Beautiful tank.
I was originally going to go for a small 30 gallon or so to get started, probably using one of my old spare freshwater breeders, but a lot of people talked me out of it and having memories of my dad's, I agreed.
Maybe I'll set up the 30 gallon, since I've already got the HOB filter, lights and heater from its heyday and that'll cut the cost in half. I can gain experience with this, almost like training wheels. I've got the dough for the initial set up of the 100 gallon at the moment, just missing week's payslips for the various extras I didn't factor in like containers for ro water.

Nothing wrong with cutting into my savings a little to grab some live rock and a clown pair for the 30 gallon! If I ever feel the itch to upgrade once I feel confident , I'll upgrade and use it as a QT. Thanks everyone! Great to learn from you guys with first hand experiences
 
ill tell those people that talked you out of it. going into something thinking your going to fail, you failed already. go little learn, its cheap and easy to take care of. keep your maintenance route in check and you will be good little tank = kiss keep it simp,le stupid IMO
 
I was in the same boat you were put I had a nice budget at the time to get something bigger started. Everyone told me to start with a 20 gallon long and some told me to get the biggest I could afford. Well I got a 55 gallon and all the necessary equipment in one setting, about a total of $2800 give or take a couple hundred. Well 6 months down the road, guess what, I went and purchase a 120 gallon tank that I have now. My LFS expert tell alot of people that are starting out to maybe get a 10-20 gallon tank, don't put in anything in there, almost like setting up a QT, learning how to change water and measure parameters, and what other things to look for. He said don't buy no expensive fish just something like damsels, chromis, or clownfish that way if you decide to go bigger they will already be quarantine and you will already have your QT setup or you can take the fish back to your LFS. He also said that this process will help you look for special diseases, infections, and parasites that occur with saltwater fish. He stated in this tank the only thing in there to focus on is the fish, in a DT you have multiple things to attend to and lose track of what the condition is of the fish until it's too late. Just decide on what you want and there is plenty of help on this forum to guide you through. When starting out with saltwater it's trial and error which you learn from your mistakes. Sorry so long!!
 
anthonys51 said:
going into something thinking your going to fail, you failed already.
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I don't think anyone suggested failure.

My advice is more along the lines of taking advantage of the current situation. The OP is young, excited about the hobby, and is making money at an aquarium shop. Already armpit deep and getting paid to do it. There is no need to go blasting all that cash on a 100g tank when you already have stuff you can use. It may not be the latest fancy gadget but it's a great way to get your personal tank started, it can always be transferred at any time.

I would wait for a juicy deal to come around to do the upgrade anyways. Being in the business you will run across a few.
 
Yes but just give him the pros and cons of small tank verse big tank. Small tanks you will be really limited in what fish you can put In. Bigger tanks you will have more options. I actually went with a 29 gallon tank and still spent over 3000 to set it up. I know he said he had a discount but he never said how much of a discount Plus online web sites I find can sometimes be almost 50 percent off lfs anyway
 
Protein skimmer question

Protein skimmer question

I am putting an octo150INT skimmer in my sump/refugium. I don't see why we draw and discharge in the same section. I have a 30 g three section sump with refugium in the middle and danner 9.5 return pump to my 90 g DT
 
My suggestion is not that I think you SHOULD start small, but that you CAN. Every additional piece of equipment is a cost, and added complexity. You didn't say your dads age, but I'm 47 and when I was your age, folks were using undergravel filters. Then it went to wet/dry with bio-balls. Today, your dads tank would likely be completely different with the knowledge in the hobby today. There are lots of fish and corals that you can love that don't require crazy sophistication. Clowns can practically live in bleach, and there are some soft corals, like Xenia, mushroom and GSP that you can't stop from growing. Later, you'll fall in love with an acropora and then you'll discover a whole new world of dosing, reactors etc.
Nothing kills your joy faster than watching a tank crash or a favorite fish die. It's discouraging to battle algae for what seems like forever. So make your parts list, add 20%, shop for deals, and if you can handle it, go for the bigger setup. Every Christmas and birthday from now on will be a list of hobby gear. Like I said, I turn 47 this weekend, and my mom asked what I wanted. "Gee mom, how about money and I'll name the coral I get after you?"
 
I agree i went small because of the cost factor and the amont of time a bigger tank takes , i used to have a 265 gallon reef tank, but it was like 15 years ago. boy have things changed. i got out of the hobby for years, then 6 years ago started back up with a planted tank. now i have 6 tanks, my advice, dont cheap out when it comes to equipment, buy the best and buy over-sided stuff. i have an aqua-clear 110 on a 29 gallon tank. i also don't like canister filters, find that they are annoying to clean, feels that it leaches nitrates and phosphates back into tank.
 
Alright, I finally reached the point in my savings where I could go out and purchase the huge tank, sump, lights, skimmer, heater, live rock, substrate, hydrometer, salt mix, RODI system, test kits, ....... Everything I've factored in. But fear not, those who have helped me with really great advice! I'm not going to jump in to the deep end just yet. I really appreciate all the decent info on the pros and cons of small vs large tanks and your own experiences with starting your first tank.
I think what I'll do is grab a simple 20 gallon bare-bones set up. I think I'll just use a HOB filter? Eventually I'll just add a small goby I suppose, learn the ropes on everything that doesn't transfer well from FW to SW, like perfecting specific gravity and all the unique SW problems. I'll be able to see first-hand the algae bloom, so it will be easier to manage and understand when it strikes in my eventual large tank.

When I get the 100 gallon (6 months? A year? Maybe longer? Not soon. I want to gain as much practice as possible!), I can easily just place that goby in the new tank and use it as a QT. I don't know if that's a good idea or not, since I'm planning on using live rock. If I ever were to place a fish in there for medication in the far future, would copper kill organisms living in the live rock?
 
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