First Timer with some ideas
- Thread starter iairj84
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Underwaterparadise
New member
depends on the tank. If the glass is too thin then more then likely it will crack or shatter when drilled. I prefer drilled over HOB. Also if you don't all ready have a diamond bit they can be a lil $$$.
iairj84.
I too plan on using dremel or zip tool diamond bits. However, I've heard (and seen videos) some smaller tanks including 20's have all sides including the bottom tempered. tempered glass = do not drill. That being said I've heard it can be done if the tempering wasn't done that effectively (i.e. not to stressed in that localized area) - no way to know though. So I suppose you should do this anytime you drill a tank: Anticipate having to replace it if things go south. Good luck with this project.
I agree with Rob above. drilled anytime over HOB overflows if possible. There was a rule for a while with HOB - those that have had failures and those that will. I personally have had mine set up for five years now and still no failures
D ) . I also agree with Rob about doing the hardware setup all at once. Too much a pain to do it later. Plus the one thing a reef aquarium thrives on is stability.
I too plan on using dremel or zip tool diamond bits. However, I've heard (and seen videos) some smaller tanks including 20's have all sides including the bottom tempered. tempered glass = do not drill. That being said I've heard it can be done if the tempering wasn't done that effectively (i.e. not to stressed in that localized area) - no way to know though. So I suppose you should do this anytime you drill a tank: Anticipate having to replace it if things go south. Good luck with this project.
I agree with Rob above. drilled anytime over HOB overflows if possible. There was a rule for a while with HOB - those that have had failures and those that will. I personally have had mine set up for five years now and still no failures
D ) . I also agree with Rob about doing the hardware setup all at once. Too much a pain to do it later. Plus the one thing a reef aquarium thrives on is stability.Well I would rather go the safe route as I would prefer not to replace the glass or tank. I might take it by one of the glass shops and have them drill it for me as they have the right bits and it's not worth my time to fuss with the glass too much. I spend enough time tinkering with the other things.
Twisted
Premium Member
Nice thing about trying to drill a 20 gallon is, it didn't cost much to begin with, cheap to replace, and if the bottom breaks out, the you seperate the sides so that you have dividers for the refugium you will have to make later when you increase tank size. Because, you will increase tank size...everyone increase tank size...even if it means just adding a second, or third, maybe fourth, and in some cases a fifth tank.....
Muhahahaha! it's not a hobby! It's an addiction!
Muhahahaha! it's not a hobby! It's an addiction!
Haha well I know a 20 is only the beginning, which is why I don't wanna get too excited and put all my eggs into this proverbial basket. I started with a 10 gallon and now have too many tanks than I have space for.
What do you think is the best way to plumb for sump while not causing myself too much trouble. I can see myself turning my 55 into a salty tank.
What do you think is the best way to plumb for sump while not causing myself too much trouble. I can see myself turning my 55 into a salty tank.
Underwaterparadise
New member
If you are even thinking of switching the 55g to Salt do it now unless you want multiple salt tanks. When the bug bites ya it bites hard and you will want a bigger tank before you know it!
Plumbing for the 20 should be simple. A 3/4" drain and 1/2" or 3/4 return line. I suggest you T off the return line into 2 lines for more options with the flow. This may elevate having power heads in the tank. Or go with some type of spray bar.
I know I am a lil ways out from Chico but if you ever have questions or need help feel free to stop by my store and ask all the questions you want. I can show several ways to plumb a tank.
Plumbing for the 20 should be simple. A 3/4" drain and 1/2" or 3/4 return line. I suggest you T off the return line into 2 lines for more options with the flow. This may elevate having power heads in the tank. Or go with some type of spray bar.
I know I am a lil ways out from Chico but if you ever have questions or need help feel free to stop by my store and ask all the questions you want. I can show several ways to plumb a tank.
Well see space, space, space... I love my cichlids and wouldn't want to get rid of them at least right now. I know it would be easier right now but I REALLY don't have the space for another 55 which is why I'm going with the 20 at least to start. You're right I will eventually want a bigger tank, or more tanks but that will just lead to me buying another. I already have the tanks for this setup which just makes it that much easier
I like the idea of dual outlets which would make it easier for flow. What kind of pumps are needed to make it all flow right?
I like the idea of dual outlets which would make it easier for flow. What kind of pumps are needed to make it all flow right?
Underwaterparadise
New member
How much head loss are you going to have? I like the Quiet one pumps. A Quiet one 3000 should give you about 550gph at about 4' that would give you approx. 225gph out of each return if you "T" it off. Mag drive pumps are good but use more power thus creating more heat.
Well I dont know much about head loss but from what I gather it would seem like It would be aprox 3 feet from the bottom of the tank to the sump, and 4ft give or take for the returns. I don't know exactly how this would be calculated given my numbers but it seems that's what it looks like. The quiet one's seem affordable from what I've seen on the net.
Underwaterparadise
New member
You have to figure in how many feet from the pump to where the water comes out the other end also add about 1/2' for every 90 and 1/4' for every 45. I think 5' is a safe bet. I can't really discuss prices since I am a retail store myself.
Underwaterparadise
New member
Yes that is the idea. Water from the main tank is gravity fed to the sump then pumped back into the tank with the return pump. Sumps are mainly used for extra water volume and a place to put all the components so they don't clutter up the tank. If I were you I would take a look at one in person just to give you a good idea of how it is set up. For me it is better to see in person then online but that is just me!
Underwaterparadise
New member
water can only go over the TOP of the overflow box so if the power cuts off it will stop draining once the water level gets below the teeth on the over flow box. You just have to make sure your sump can handle what ever amount of water that is. You could always use check valves but I am not a fan of them at all.
Underwaterparadise
New member
Yes if your return line sits below the teeth on the overflow box you will need to drill a small hole in the return line in order to break the suction and not have a reverse syphon.
My Overflow: I bought an SOS overflow and it has worked wonderfully after they replaced a damaged U-tube (plastic weld failed and therefore failed to keep vacuum when trying to draw siphon over tank wall.
Basically you'll need two box like compartments - one in the tank with teeth, gutter guard, or some method of allowing water through but not critters like snails or fish, the other one outside the tank with piping/tubing connected to drain the water to the sump. These two boxes should be connected some how. Then the key and tricky part is the overflow part which takes the water from the inside tank box to the outside tank box. This is what I call the U-tube. The key is to keep this primed at all times for a power failure could cause levels to drop and prime to be lost. If designed correctly this will not happen. I have a dedicated powerhead drawing a vacuum via the attached venturi (if you can call it that - at least it is in general principle) and it sits inside the outside box as it created too much violent, jet-like flow in my main. Others I've seen are using lifter type pumps to keep the U-tube primed. The big picture here is the U-tube is where this device fails. If power goes out and it loses prime and subsequently power returns: the main tank overflows. Further, the lack of the siphon break on the sump return line(s) (if they are submerged below main tank water level) will cause water to drain from main to sump and overflow that way. I've got, I think, a 3/16" hole (actually two in mine as since it's near the surface algae over time tends to clog the hole.) Easy enough to clean but I don't want it to fail when I need it to work.
Once you get everything set up and flowing, do a trial run and let the return pump lose power. Your overflow will drain a bit, sump level will rise slightly until the siphon break hole on the sump return has a chance to work, and hopefully the U-tube prime stays. Then restart the pump to ensure it will restart after shutdown - some cheap ones fail to restart immediately and others may, over time, fail to restart if you drip kalk or add other mineral sumplimentation to your tank. After the sump pump restarts then ensure the system overlow restarts and water flows into the sump.
I have two drains in my overflow. SOS has a their silencing device on one side and a slightly higher no obstruction tube overflow on the other. This is such if anything clogs or prohibits flow on the main silent tube then the water will still have a way to make it back to the sump without problems. This of course will be slurpy and loud so you'll know to check it out. I would recommend having two overflow pipes in your outside box just to ensure if one should fail, you'll have a backup.
There are ways to make your own overflow and stockman and other types of PVC pieces can be made to minimize the noise from the drain tubes. But since this is your first setup - I would go with a retail overflow so you know what you're getting and can know that it should work.
PM me and you're more than welcome to come by and see my setup sometime.
Basically you'll need two box like compartments - one in the tank with teeth, gutter guard, or some method of allowing water through but not critters like snails or fish, the other one outside the tank with piping/tubing connected to drain the water to the sump. These two boxes should be connected some how. Then the key and tricky part is the overflow part which takes the water from the inside tank box to the outside tank box. This is what I call the U-tube. The key is to keep this primed at all times for a power failure could cause levels to drop and prime to be lost. If designed correctly this will not happen. I have a dedicated powerhead drawing a vacuum via the attached venturi (if you can call it that - at least it is in general principle) and it sits inside the outside box as it created too much violent, jet-like flow in my main. Others I've seen are using lifter type pumps to keep the U-tube primed. The big picture here is the U-tube is where this device fails. If power goes out and it loses prime and subsequently power returns: the main tank overflows. Further, the lack of the siphon break on the sump return line(s) (if they are submerged below main tank water level) will cause water to drain from main to sump and overflow that way. I've got, I think, a 3/16" hole (actually two in mine as since it's near the surface algae over time tends to clog the hole.) Easy enough to clean but I don't want it to fail when I need it to work.
Once you get everything set up and flowing, do a trial run and let the return pump lose power. Your overflow will drain a bit, sump level will rise slightly until the siphon break hole on the sump return has a chance to work, and hopefully the U-tube prime stays. Then restart the pump to ensure it will restart after shutdown - some cheap ones fail to restart immediately and others may, over time, fail to restart if you drip kalk or add other mineral sumplimentation to your tank. After the sump pump restarts then ensure the system overlow restarts and water flows into the sump.
I have two drains in my overflow. SOS has a their silencing device on one side and a slightly higher no obstruction tube overflow on the other. This is such if anything clogs or prohibits flow on the main silent tube then the water will still have a way to make it back to the sump without problems. This of course will be slurpy and loud so you'll know to check it out. I would recommend having two overflow pipes in your outside box just to ensure if one should fail, you'll have a backup.
There are ways to make your own overflow and stockman and other types of PVC pieces can be made to minimize the noise from the drain tubes. But since this is your first setup - I would go with a retail overflow so you know what you're getting and can know that it should work.
PM me and you're more than welcome to come by and see my setup sometime.
