Hzuiel
New member
I saw a guy on one forum asking what was wrong with his tank, and he had about 10+ fish in a 32 gallon bowfront, including i think 3 or 4 small tangs. LFS employees that would let that happen ought to be drug out and shot.
First trip to the local saltwater aqaurium shop
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I saw a guy on one forum asking what was wrong with his tank, and he had about 10+ fish in a 32 gallon bowfront, including i think 3 or 4 small tangs. LFS employees that would let that happen ought to be drug out and shot.
Elrodg
New member
Agreed. But you cannot expect them to know everything about someone's tank. And you cannot expect them to ask each and every time. It's the customers responsibility to research what they intend in purchasing.
Fizz71
FragSwapper
I apologize if I offended you..what I mean by "true hobbyist" has nothing to do with tank size or even $. I'm trying to figure out how to word this with it not sounding offensive when read because I'm not trying to offend anybody and you can read things many different ways. So I'll use me as an example....
When I first started with the hobby well over 15 years ago I really didn't take the time to understand the chemistry, or learn about how the stuff I put in my glass box actually worked. I had the tank, but I wasn't really into the hobby (yet). It was a 20g(?) tank on a steel stand. I took the word of the lfs and mfg that this magic device they were selling had everything I needed to go saltwater. That first real "reef keeping" product? A Skilter!!! Oooohh yeah!!!
The result was a lot more $$$ dumped into a system that just didn't do sqaut...I mean I couldn't even keep clowns alive.
Then I moved up to 75g with a wet/dry!!! Yeah!!! I could COUNT the bubbles in the built-in "skimmer" but I didn't know any better. I also flooded the carpet more than once setting it up...That lasted about 2 weeks.
Next I found an LFS that was 100% SW. He had his own filter design which was a HOT filter that to some extent emulates what we use today: high flow, live rock, etc. It was better, but required a lot of chemicals and sponges since the design was "no water changes required". I didn't really know what I was adding or using but it worked OK for softies, but still no real growth.
Now the 15 years after I started the hobby I have a MUCH better understanding of the chemistry, fluid dynamics (not flooding my house), basic plumbing, lighting, husbandry....I know the "hobby" and I don't just have a box of glass and take the word of an LFS or mfg telling me something "is all I need".
A lot of these cubes IMO are just bigger brighter versions of a skilter..they promise everything in a box and they (the lfs) tell you that they don't require any more stuff or any real knowledge of the hobby. That works out GREAT for the LFS because you keep coming back for more when things die, or you need to upgrade.
I'm not saying you can't be a "true hobbyist" if you own a cube, I'm just saying the cube is geared towards the person that isn't really into the hobby just yet. And the BIG problem is...if you use it as your "starter" system you wind up with something that can't be upgraded easily later.
As I said before...I wouldn't mind owning a cube because some of them look sweet! But I know I'd be drilling it into my other system because I've designed a W/C layout on that system that requires no lifting and no dragging buckets around (accept the salt buckets) and I have a very effective RDSB and more LR than I need also stowed remotely in the sump.
Bottom line...this is a "hobby" for me now.
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With the internet and places like RC, you dont have to learn as much before upgrading like you did 15 years ago.
I would personally buy the *Longest* tank possible in your budget/space you have. Handling a 180 gallon tank is not any harder than a 55 gallon in terms of required experience. Actually it may be a bit easier as the water volume allows for more leeway.
I would personally buy the *Longest* tank possible in your budget/space you have. Handling a 180 gallon tank is not any harder than a 55 gallon in terms of required experience. Actually it may be a bit easier as the water volume allows for more leeway.
Sacohen
New member
It seems as if you know what you want.
No see what you have room for.
I want a 200 gallon tan, but I only have room for a 55.
Look on Craiglist as already stated another great place to get answers to questions and find LFS is a local club.
I don't know exactly where you live or even the layout of Indiana, but these 4 were listed in the club forum.
Indiana - Fort Wayne Marine Aquarists Society (FWMAS) http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=275
Northwest Indiana Marine Aquarium Club
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=267
Indiana Marine Aquarium Society (INDMAS)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=255
Indiana - Tri-State Reef Club
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=624
There are probably a lot more stores around you than you know of.
No see what you have room for.
I want a 200 gallon tan, but I only have room for a 55.
Look on Craiglist as already stated another great place to get answers to questions and find LFS is a local club.
I don't know exactly where you live or even the layout of Indiana, but these 4 were listed in the club forum.
Indiana - Fort Wayne Marine Aquarists Society (FWMAS) http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=275
Northwest Indiana Marine Aquarium Club
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=267
Indiana Marine Aquarium Society (INDMAS)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=255
Indiana - Tri-State Reef Club
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=624
There are probably a lot more stores around you than you know of.
HeadlessRoland
New member
Kudos for the links, guys!
honestly, how can you say that? i took great pains to make sure all of my fish are reef-safe and that they would get along with each other. it's all fine that you can drill and plumb and have the room for upgrading to a huge tank. some of us (who truly ARE "into the hobby") don't have that luxury. i'm old. i live alone out in the middle of nowhere. i have a LOT of other animals that i care for. i've had both of my hips replaced and i had major back surgery a couple of years ago. it just isn't feasible for me to have even a 40 breeder or a 55g tank. you cannot make such a generalization as you have been doing.
i guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
Fizz71
FragSwapper
i guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
With a community this large there are ALWAYS exceptions to ANY situation. Generalizations are just that...GENERALiszations...not LAWS.
Hell there are people on here with GROWING goniopora, but I still tell everybody I know to not buy one no matter how pretty it looks right now.And I had back surgery too which is why I built a system to change out 55g of my tank water doing nothing more than turning 3 ball valves and flipping a switch to a pump...and mixing 55g of more WC water flipping another switch and scooping salt. Something I would not have been able to accomplish without learning about plumbing which I ONLY learned through keeping my tanks over the years.
It sounds to me...since you have TWO biocube systems now and had a 125g system years ago...that you have been putting in your time to the point that it was and IS a hobby to you. I'm guessing you knew the hobby BEFORE buying a biocube? Good for you...welcome to Exceptionville...population YOU
...but just the OPs opening quote from the LFS:"this is what you want. Plug and play. Stick a heater in, add some water and you are ready to go."
..shows exactly the mentality that they are gearing these products towards. And that's my issue with them as "reefs" (and LFSs).
smartwater101
New member
+1
Relative to a larger setup, a biocube IS quick and easy. As I mention above, NOTHING wrong with that. It doesn't matter if its a small all-in-one, or a 600g reef. At the end of the day, all that matters is if your tank is fulfilling for you. And the OP seems to already have the instinct to go with a larger setup.
don't get me wrong. i would love nothing better than another 125g tank...IF i had somebody i could hire to come and do all the maintenance. as it is now, by the time i get home from work, feed the oinkers, play with and feed two great danes, fill 10 hummingbird feeders, and do everything else it requires to keep up 10 acres, i don't even sit down till 8 p.m. when i do finally get to relax, i turn the t.v. on long enough to get the evening news and then i just turn on some music and watch my tanks. my house is small, space is at a premium, the cubes fit perfectly.
i'm not saying the biocubes are perfect for everybody. you still have to know what you're doing. they aren't as "plug and play" as many of the lfs's would have you believe. there is still water testing, occasional gha problems, a little cyano here and there and hermit crabs running amock...all that and more. but i do still think they make good starter tanks for people who *think* they want to get into saltwater/reef tanks. i've known my share of people who, when they learn i have saltwater tanks, say to me "yeah, i tried that once. spent enough $$ equivalent to my kid's college education and ended up tearing everything down 'cause my fish kept dying." if somebody's gonna fail at reefing, they should fail with a biocube rather than a multi-thousand dollar system that, when they think they can sell it, they can hardly GIVE it away!
i'm not saying the biocubes are perfect for everybody. you still have to know what you're doing. they aren't as "plug and play" as many of the lfs's would have you believe. there is still water testing, occasional gha problems, a little cyano here and there and hermit crabs running amock...all that and more. but i do still think they make good starter tanks for people who *think* they want to get into saltwater/reef tanks. i've known my share of people who, when they learn i have saltwater tanks, say to me "yeah, i tried that once. spent enough $$ equivalent to my kid's college education and ended up tearing everything down 'cause my fish kept dying." if somebody's gonna fail at reefing, they should fail with a biocube rather than a multi-thousand dollar system that, when they think they can sell it, they can hardly GIVE it away!
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Biocubehqi
New member
Been following this and didn't wanna post because I didn't want the infraction. But our lil nano cubes take more care than the big dogs any day of the week. If I let my top off go for a day I can kiss my reef goodbye... You can have a big tank and make it look and be crap. Same as the BioCube. It's a perfect beginners piece because it only takes a couple of grand to do it, if somebody is new and don't like the hobby after a year they didn't take a huge money bath...
smartwater101
New member
No. They do not.
A smaller tank has its own maintenance needs but don't pretend that a biocube takes anywhere near the amount of time/money that a larger system requires. Listen to what Nina41 has been saying... its the very reason people choose all-in-one systems in the first place.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH QUICK AND EASY. If you find your setup fulfilling then that is all that matters. Your cube may not seem quick and easy to you... But its all relative. And relative to larger systems, your cubes DO NOT take more care.
smartwater101
New member
+1
Saltwater livestock has many needs. Its unfortunate that some LFS pass it off as "set and forget"
Smaller systems require a greater attention to detail. There's really no arguing that. A small mistake in a nano system can be catastrophic. There is a lot more forgiveness in the larger tanks. Really, money and space are the reason most people go smaller. I don't understand how a larger tank is any more time consuming than a nano. You are doing the exact same things for maintenance, you're just doing it on a larger scale... It takes longer for problems to develop in the larger systems. Your levels are more stable as there is a larger quantity of water. If anything the larger tanks are easier and more forgiving? I don't understand how anyone can argue to the contrary?
smartwater101
New member
More money? Absolutely. More time? Maybe, maybe not... You might spend more time doing water changes or dosing because you're dealing with more volume, but the difference is negligible. Does it really take you longer to mix up 15 gallons of salt water for a water change than it does 3? Maybe a couple minutes? Dump the salt and water in a container, and turn the pump and heater on. Come back tomorrow. Larger systems typically have hardware to automate some of the things nanos do manually. Most people with a large tank have an RO/DI unit. A lot of people with nanos buy their water. Most large tanks have an ATO. A lot of nanos top off manually. etc. You also have the luxury of more stable water parameters, which require less tinkering. Time I would call a wash, to be honest. The time difference is really all in the initial setup. Once the tanks are running? Dunno about that. Any reef tank is a commitment, and a few extra minutes here or there is really nothing in the big picture.
smartwater101
New member
You are just verifying it takes more time and money for a larger setup. And still trying to brush it off. "the difference is negligible"... yeah, in your opinion. Fact is, it still takes more time and money. It doesn't matter whether you have the time or money... the point is that a larger system requires more of both.
smartwater101
New member
I don't understand the time difference in maintaining a larger tank compared to a smaller one, but it's really not worth arguing about.
lol fair enough. Either way its a rewarding hobby!
I'm curious what the OP decided to go with. Update?
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