Flame Angel Problematic

[ca1ore]

OK, so I generally have pretty good success with fish. In my current tank, I've not lost a new fish for months, except ..... I cannot seem to keep a Flame Angel. They are pretty popular, and lots of people are successful with them, just not me I guess.

Bought a 2" angel from my LFS - it had been there a few weeks. Initially was fine, water parameters in my QT good; but then after about 10 days developed tattered fins, pale color, and despite prazipro and fish flox treatment he died.

OK, just bad luck, so then got a 3" angel form a fellow reefer that had been in his tank for months. Three hour drive in a bucket with a bubbler, and he is toast by the time I get him home.

Other than simply not trying again, can anyone give me some advice on how they have handled this fish.

Thx!

 

[CedzAquAddictio]

I've had the same luck with kole tanks...

How are you acclimating your fish?

 

[ca1ore]

Traditional drip if they have not been in the bag for very long. Salinity adjustment in QT if they have to avoid ammonia toxicity. I can't think of anything obvious that I am doing wrong - maybe just bad luck.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

If it is just two fish, it probably is chance/ bad luck. Watch for one in your lfs that is eating, and it should work out. You aren't using copper, right? Flames don't tolerate copper well at all.

 

[ca1ore]

No, no copper!

 

[C4DC]

Three hour drive in a bucket with a bubbler, and he is toast by the time I get him home.

Thx!

I've heard not to use bubblers as it can change the pH too rapidly and stress the fish.

 

[ca1ore]

Hmmn, not sure why that would be?

 

[brcreefer]

decreasing pH decreases the toxicity of ammonia. As CO2 builds up, pH drops. If you bubble, there is less CO2 in the water, pH goes up, and ammonia becomes more toxic.

 

[ilikefish34]

In addition to observing them eat and having good weight in the LFS, look for good behavioral traits. A mentally healthy fish will make eye contact with you, quickly dart back and forth (while you are starring at it... and calmly picking while you are not) and consistently returns with more eye contact. These are signs of a fish that is very comfortable and aware of their surroundings. And a fish that is comfortable and shows awareness, generally, is a healthy fish. Still quarantine for internals plus flukes. BTW, one Flame that died in your care and one that died in transport would be chalked up to bad luck in my book. Good luck!

 

[triggreef]

If it is just two fish, it probably is chance/ bad luck. Watch for one in your lfs that is eating, and it should work out. You aren't using copper, right? Flames don't tolerate copper well at all.

No, no copper!

I agree probably chance. I disagree about copper, and buying from LFS for the most part unless its just a killer deal, which is almost never.

My flame angel has gone through getting ich, being pulled out of display, tank transfer method which worked, also hit with 4 weeks of cupramine for good measure.

To top it off I did not wait on my fishless fallow period in the tank he went back into long enough and it returned. That tank is now FOWLR and he has been under copper for about 5 weeks now. I am going another couple weeks to be absolutely sure I kicked it this time.

Also, he shares his tank with many fish that some say are no good under copper, including a puffer and clowns who went through the same other treatment as well, a bunch of wrasses and tangs, and even a punctato butterfly who only started eating like a pig after being moved to a tank with full copper after not eating a thing for 3 weeks.

I have a ton of confidence in cupramine not being a killer, but getting a bad rap from fish that died from something else while being exposed to copper.

Sorry for the slightly OT. My advice on the flame angel (and any other fish) is to buy online. You cant beat a 7 to 14 day guarantee. I dont understand really why anyone buys fish from lfs. Corals yes, fish no. I get everything from reefs2go and bluezoo and seldom have any issue other than some more fragile fish being DOA. But I never had issue getting credit. I want to try DD but just never seem to line up with when they have what I want.

 

[humaguy]

I agree probably chance. I disagree about copper, and buying from LFS for the most part unless its just a killer deal, which is almost never.

My flame angel has gone through getting ich, being pulled out of display, tank transfer method which worked, also hit with 4 weeks of cupramine for good measure.

To top it off I did not wait on my fishless fallow period in the tank he went back into long enough and it returned. That tank is now FOWLR and he has been under copper for about 5 weeks now. I am going another couple weeks to be absolutely sure I kicked it this time.

Also, he shares his tank with many fish that some say are no good under copper, including a puffer and clowns who went through the same other treatment as well, a bunch of wrasses and tangs, and even a punctato butterfly who only started eating like a pig after being moved to a tank with full copper after not eating a thing for 3 weeks.

I have a ton of confidence in cupramine not being a killer, but getting a bad rap from fish that died from something else while being exposed to copper.

Sorry for the slightly OT. My advice on the flame angel (and any other fish) is to buy online. You cant beat a 7 to 14 day guarantee. I dont understand really why anyone buys fish from lfs. Corals yes, fish no. I get everything from reefs2go and bluezoo and seldom have any issue other than some more fragile fish being DOA. But I never had issue getting credit. I want to try DD but just never seem to line up with when they have what I want.

cupramine and centropyge can be a deadly combination if care is not taken with regards to slowly ramping up to and achieving the recommended dosage level...

 

[ca1ore]

decreasing pH decreases the toxicity of ammonia. As CO2 builds up, pH drops. If you bubble, there is less CO2 in the water, pH goes up, and ammonia becomes more toxic.

Yes, I understand that. My point (not made clearly perhaps) was that a fish being transported in a bucket with a bubbler for three hours is unlikely to generate much in the way of ammonia. If it was a small bag that had been 24 hrs sealed then I'm with you.

 

[humaguy]

Yes, I understand that. My point (not made clearly perhaps) was that a fish being transported in a bucket with a bubbler for three hours is unlikely to generate much in the way of ammonia. If it was a small bag that had been 24 hrs sealed then I'm with you.

airstones can become like mini protein skimmers for lack of a better term... and without filtration and the skim mate being removed from the water (which is not occurring in the bucket) it can become poisonous...

 

[ca1ore]

OK, I suppose that is possible, but I'm sticking with the bubblers that I have used to transport fish short distances for years.

To the original topic, got a Flame locally for my third .... and final try. Hope to not become a serial killer

 

[humaguy]

I used to take my fish on 4 hour drives in the 80's when I was in college...buckets and never a bubbler...the natural agitation will help to oxygenate the water...or itf, ask the lfs to put fish in a bag with pure oxygen...good luck