Flame Angelfish (Centropyge loricula) Breeding Log?!
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Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
I'm inclined to agree, but if he was an incomplete, immature male it seems at least possible- Plus you have the factor of size difference, since the fish was juvenile sized perhaps the larger fish was more tolerant than it might otherwise have been. Just speculation....
Still it can be very difficult to sex them in photos due to angle and fin positions. In the second photo, I'd say you've got a female. But in the first photo the bands look so pronounced, wide and dark unlike their later appearance.
The change from female to male can happen as quickly as 20 days - if they can change backwards it may be just as quick. Lastly, it's been documented in other Centropyge species that a small female can indeed change into a male given certain circumstances - so it can't be 100% assumed that just because the fish is small it that it was female.
Still it can be very difficult to sex them in photos due to angle and fin positions. In the second photo, I'd say you've got a female. But in the first photo the bands look so pronounced, wide and dark unlike their later appearance.
The change from female to male can happen as quickly as 20 days - if they can change backwards it may be just as quick. Lastly, it's been documented in other Centropyge species that a small female can indeed change into a male given certain circumstances - so it can't be 100% assumed that just because the fish is small it that it was female.
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mwp
In Memoriam
I'm inclined to not accept coloration as a definitive identifier to begin with...we're not dealing with something as readily noticeable as an elongated dorsal spine (mandarins), completely different dorsal fin (i.e. scooter blennies), completely different coloration (i.e. many wrasses, anthias etc), or even worse, different morphology (i.e. seahorses). Instead, it seems like the flame angel sexing is on-par with bangaii cardinalfish sexing...there are "tendencies" but nothing definitive.
FWIW,
Matt
FWIW,
Matt
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
Oh, ok.
mwp
In Memoriam
Well, Marie et. al., I think the angels may be settling the argument for us, because this evening, well, things have "changed".
COURTSHIP, or at least what could be read as courtship, just before lights out this evening. The larger fish soared around the tank in circles, the little one following. They'd meet at the surface where the smaller fish would flare it's fins, the larger fish then coming up and nipping at the ventral area. At this point the smaller one would clamp it's fins. Sometimes the larger one would switch sides. Sometimes they'd circle each other (more typical of the tail chasing often seen in aggressive African Cichlids). Once in a while this activity would end with a "nasty chase", the larger one chasing the smaller one, other times the larger one would just lose interest. Typically in the later situation, the smaller one would seek out the larger one and perform a lateral display, which would then ellict a response, typically another soar of sorts. This "grouping of behaviors" would be interrupted by periods of grazing, and then start up again. It probably happened 5 or 6 times in the 20 minutes I sat watching them.
So um, yeah, don't think we have two males, at least they're not really acting like it
Matt
COURTSHIP, or at least what could be read as courtship, just before lights out this evening. The larger fish soared around the tank in circles, the little one following. They'd meet at the surface where the smaller fish would flare it's fins, the larger fish then coming up and nipping at the ventral area. At this point the smaller one would clamp it's fins. Sometimes the larger one would switch sides. Sometimes they'd circle each other (more typical of the tail chasing often seen in aggressive African Cichlids). Once in a while this activity would end with a "nasty chase", the larger one chasing the smaller one, other times the larger one would just lose interest. Typically in the later situation, the smaller one would seek out the larger one and perform a lateral display, which would then ellict a response, typically another soar of sorts. This "grouping of behaviors" would be interrupted by periods of grazing, and then start up again. It probably happened 5 or 6 times in the 20 minutes I sat watching them.
So um, yeah, don't think we have two males, at least they're not really acting like it
Matt
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8330973#post8330973 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
Well, Marie et. al., I think the angels may be settling the argument for us, because this evening, well, things have "changed".
COURTSHIP, or at least what could be read as courtship, just before lights out this evening. The larger fish soared around the tank in circles, the little one following. They'd meet at the surface where the smaller fish would flare it's fins, the larger fish then coming up and nipping at the ventral area. At this point the smaller one would clamp it's fins. Sometimes the larger one would switch sides. Sometimes they'd circle each other (more typical of the tail chasing often seen in aggressive African Cichlids). Once in a while this activity would end with a "nasty chase", the larger one chasing the smaller one, other times the larger one would just lose interest. Typically in the later situation, the smaller one would seek out the larger one and perform a lateral display, which would then ellict a response, typically another soar of sorts. This "grouping of behaviors" would be interrupted by periods of grazing, and then start up again. It probably happened 5 or 6 times in the 20 minutes I sat watching them.
So um, yeah, don't think we have two males, at least they're not really acting like it
Matt
Glad to hear it!
For the record, what I said was that in the older photo, the smaller fish looked "male-ish" but in the more recent photo, it appeared to be female.
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
When they actually spawn are you going to try and hatch the larvae? Any pod/pod larvae access? I've considered straining some out of the Gulf of Mexico during warm months - but I need to invest in equipment.
Culturing the pods sounds like a major pita - and being as lazy as I am....well it's not a good combination -lol - Now, if I had a grant and was getting paid like some others working on this, I might be motivated to raise some pods 
I guess I'm a "pairer" and not a "breeder" - talk about specializing
on that note, I have to brag that I think my blackcap basslets have paired up! Yee- hah! (Yes, we actually say that in Texas )
Again, congrats on your courting pair!
Culturing the pods sounds like a major pita - and being as lazy as I am....well it's not a good combination -lol - Now, if I had a grant and was getting paid like some others working on this, I might be motivated to raise some pods
I guess I'm a "pairer" and not a "breeder" - talk about specializing
on that note, I have to brag that I think my blackcap basslets have paired up! Yee- hah! (Yes, we actually say that in Texas )Again, congrats on your courting pair!
mwp
In Memoriam
Luis, what Calanoids are easy to culture? I have those mystery calanoids, tried T-Iso, Nanno, no luck in the end.
Marie, I do have Tiggerpods, which, as it turns out (and I didn't know) apparently the larvae SWIM...unusual for a harp perhaps but very possibly they could work and compared to the calanoid I tried to isolate and culture, Tiggerpods work well in batch culture.
Matt
Marie, I do have Tiggerpods, which, as it turns out (and I didn't know) apparently the larvae SWIM...unusual for a harp perhaps but very possibly they could work and compared to the calanoid I tried to isolate and culture, Tiggerpods work well in batch culture.
Matt
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
Luis - maybe simple for you! But even if were easy for me, I don't have a place to do it. 
mwp- how big are those tiggerpods?
I was told that for the first pod larvae to be the right size to fit in the teeny tiny itty bitty angel larval mouths that the adult "momma" pod should be about 500 microns.
mwp- how big are those tiggerpods?
I was told that for the first pod larvae to be the right size to fit in the teeny tiny itty bitty angel larval mouths that the adult "momma" pod should be about 500 microns.
Luis A M
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8335145#post8335145 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
Luis - maybe simple for you! But even if were easy for me, I don't have a place to do it.
I was told that for the first pod larvae to be the right size to fit in the teeny tiny itty bitty angel larval mouths that the adult "momma" pod should be about 500 microns.
We always find still some extra place!
Really got lost at to the meaning of the question
And I thought English was easy
See SIX adjectives in a row before the noun "mouth"Hi Matt
you might try John Delbeek, he supplied a culture of arcatia for Frank Baensch. Also perhaps Frank can chip in with a source.
There is a guy in the UK, claytonjohnsmith@hotmail.com, he does sell cultures. In your search you might also check out Euterpina acutifrons, it was also used and cultured in Hawaii. I think both are good candidates for centropyge culture.
Many of these people isolated their arcatia out of collections, if you want to go that route you can try Sachs Aquaculture, Paul does have fresh collections, I have considerd getting one and seeing what emerges as the dominant one over a period of time.
Reed mariculture does sell a phyto that works with calanoid cops.
Most labs use nanno but its not the best for calanoids. Altho nanno is used.
Luis is right on, some of us should be keeping some cultures going for these. The problem is it takes a LOT to produce many, figuring if you start with ~ 2000 pods in a new culture its about a month to get them up to ~ 60,000. In that time you'll get 100 times that many rots. So, most of the culture suppliers stay with the bigger benthic pods that also produce faster.
I'm going to be searching and will share what I can find, you've been generous with what you have been discovering. If you find some sources post here, I'll do likewise.
Luis, got any ideas where ?
My defense, I wasnt in the desert while you were preaching, well, alright, I was for part of it but there wasnt any 'net connections there.
you might try John Delbeek, he supplied a culture of arcatia for Frank Baensch. Also perhaps Frank can chip in with a source.
There is a guy in the UK, claytonjohnsmith@hotmail.com, he does sell cultures. In your search you might also check out Euterpina acutifrons, it was also used and cultured in Hawaii. I think both are good candidates for centropyge culture.
Many of these people isolated their arcatia out of collections, if you want to go that route you can try Sachs Aquaculture, Paul does have fresh collections, I have considerd getting one and seeing what emerges as the dominant one over a period of time.
Reed mariculture does sell a phyto that works with calanoid cops.
Most labs use nanno but its not the best for calanoids. Altho nanno is used.
Luis is right on, some of us should be keeping some cultures going for these. The problem is it takes a LOT to produce many, figuring if you start with ~ 2000 pods in a new culture its about a month to get them up to ~ 60,000. In that time you'll get 100 times that many rots. So, most of the culture suppliers stay with the bigger benthic pods that also produce faster.
I'm going to be searching and will share what I can find, you've been generous with what you have been discovering. If you find some sources post here, I'll do likewise.
Luis, got any ideas where ?
My defense, I wasnt in the desert while you were preaching, well, alright, I was for part of it but there wasnt any 'net connections there.
Here's an interesting site, he's been collecting and shipping at least 18 years.
very shortly I am going to be ordering several of these selections:
http://www.aquaculturestore.com/swinverts.html
This is Paul Sachs in Fla, Sach Systems Aquaculture.
very shortly I am going to be ordering several of these selections:
http://www.aquaculturestore.com/swinverts.html
This is Paul Sachs in Fla, Sach Systems Aquaculture.
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
Some of us are so expressive --lol-<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8336077#post8336077 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Luis A M
We always find still some extra place!
Really got lost at to the meaning of the question
And I thought English was easy
Pero quiero apprender Espanol. De donde usted? Soy de Houston, Texas. Solamente estudio no mas las dias.
Piensa aprendando el Espanol de Espana. Pero muchos de los Mexicanas aqui en Tejas hablan "Tex-Mex."Similar threads
